Tuesday, August 29, 2006

 

SoHum and ecological roots

My recent post on what I consider to be the dark side of SoHum culture, due largely to the effects of the marijuana industry, didn't generate many comments from industry apologists. I have been treated with some off-the-record conversation however, and most of it's been fairly nuanced and positive. Nobody who's spoken to me disagrees with my overall concern, though they've challenged me on what they feel are some of my misconceptions, which I'll discuss another time.

The conversations have moved into other areas in which the Mateel experiment has not panned out as the early pioneers had hoped. I received the following piece from a long time Mateel resident and cultural participant, and the person has allowed me to post it on the condition of anonymity. I was going to edit it down a bit, but there's some very thoughtful material in here and I'm not sure what I'd eliminate.

It's kind of an old story heard everywhere about reality setting in on a counter-culture on some precarious foundations from the beginning. On the other hand, the counter-culture created some enduring institutions that continue to make a positive difference. The revolution may not have made good on all of its promises, but hey, the old hippies aren't all dead yet anyway.

Connecting with our ecological roots: What’s stopping us?

The reading and class presentation regarding the evolving discipline of Ecopsychology struck a deep chord in my personal experience. Yes, human beings evolved in a context of relationship to and integration with the environment. We were not separate from the natural world; we were a part of it. Yes, we are psychologically attuned to the lifestyle of early humans. Small groups of related families living a nomadic or semi-nomadic existence in a seemingly infinite world of relationships between humans, plants, animals and natural geographic realities and climatic events. We evolved to experience periods of intense physical activity and challenge, and periods of rest, reflection, and relaxation. The activities of our lives were responses to seasonal variations in climate. We were keen observers of natural history. Our survival depended on fine tuned perceptions of patterns in natural cycles and in the behavioral characteristics of various species of plants and animals. It makes immediate, personal, common sense that we humans are psychologically whole when we intimately experience the environment in which we evolved. Yes, our intellectual and physical dissociation from ecologically based prehistoric tribal/clan lifestyles does seem connected to pathological behaviors on individual and cultural levels.

Why have we ensconced ourselves in our built world? We live, to a large extent, both mentally and physically, within “manmade” constructs. The environment still exists and the resurgence of interest in “wilderness” experience underscores our desire to reconnect to a more primal relationship with “wild” (undomesticated?) nature. What is stopping us?

Childhood relationship to nature: adventure and privacy

Two and half blocks from the house that I lived in from age 8 to age 17 was a dirt road leading to the city water supply. For a half mile on either side of Six Mile Creek, extending several miles up the creek and including three dams, there was no development. You could ride your bike to “Second Dam” in five or ten minutes. In two minutes, (it was downhill) you were in the woods. In places the creek had cut deep gorges through the upstate New York shale. I knew this watershed well, but not as an ecosystem. We fished, swam, and challenged ourselves to climb the cliffs, jump the cliffs into the reservoir 20-50 feet below, and walk the slippery foot wide edge of Second Dam from one side to the other, water on one side, 30 foot drop to rocks on the other. I remember my uncertainty the first time I swam from one side of the reservoir to the other and the feel of the patch of “seaweed” that reached up to my chest and legs 100 yards out in the middle. We walked across it’s frozen surface in the winter, hearts in our throats as we heard the unmistakable sound of ice cracking and we lay quickly on the ice spreading our weight to keep from breaking through. In the creek above Second Dam we slid down waterfalls to the pools below. We got caught in territorial rock throwing contests with the boys from South Hill. When we got older we went there to drink beer and indulge in other frowned upon, illicit activities. We went there with our girlfriends and skinny-dipped in the dark.

In my teenage experience with the restrictive atmospheres of school, family and church, this watershed represented a kind of freedom. Not so much freedom to behave as I wanted (we were teenage boys, constrained by an ill defined behavioral code of our own interpretation) but, freedom from the strictures and structures of the social roles and expectations we faced every day. As a rebellious son of a Presbyterian minister, I suppose the puritanical characterization of the forest as a place of darkness, danger and evil had a certain appeal. My comfort there helped to promote a serious questioning of the theological paradigm I was raised in.

I don’t mean to idealize this experience. In our noisy ways we saw few animals, we had little sense of responsibility for this watershed. Although there were still trout and smelt in the lake the watershed drained into, and there were bass and sunfish in the reservoir, the fishing in the creek was generally lousy. You could see 12-18 inch golden carp swimming near the surface (discarded and overgrown pet goldfish) in the first reservoir. This was not an undisturbed habitat.

One fall day, I was 18 and in the woods with six male friends, we had been climbing the waterfalls, and we came crashing and sliding down a steep slope littered with leaves recently fallen from the 30 or 40 foot tall canopy of hardwood trees. No doubt there were mushrooms, ferns, herbs, and saplings that I failed to notice. You could definitely see the path we had followed down the hillside. At the bottom of the slope was a friend of my family’s, an ardent conservationist and biology professor from the university. He lit into us with an fierce lecture on the different life forms we had so cavalierly trashed and disturbed on our way down the slope and the potential for erosion we left behind. This man was a conservation biologist and the source of most of what I knew about the woods in upstate New York. Our families camped and fished together on the Beaverkill river every year. He could answer almost every question we asked about the fish, trees, berries, fungus, insects and the strange, interesting growths we found on trees and bushes. I was chagrined, my friends were merely indignant, or so they behaved.

Later on in college in southern Ohio, as I watched the built world apparently melt before my eyes, during a brief but intense period of experimentation with psychedelics, I often retreated to the safety of the woods. The concurrence of patterns generated in the psychedelic experience with organic patterns of growth and decay in the nearby forest reinforced a growing affinity with the processes of the natural world.

In the context of the Ecopsychology readings I see this relationship with the local creeks and forests as a response to the alienation from nature experienced as a teenager in suburban upstate New York. I see the risk taking activities as both an unconscious and conscious drive to experience the ontological challenges common to young men in hunter-gatherer societies which I was prone genetically and psychologically, to emulate.

Early adulthood: Back to the land

I dropped out of college 1972 for a variety of reasons (lack of financial support and an unwillingness to commit to debt to pursue an uncertain career or educational path, among other reasons) and I hitchhiked to California for the second time. I gravitated to southern Humboldt County around the same time a number of counter-cultural refugees from college campuses and the street scenes in Haight-Ashbury and on Telegraph avenue began to establish a presence in the recently harvested (50’s and 60’s) forest lands around Garberville. I was in the woods again.

I was part of the back-to-the-land “movement”. We shared a distrust of the “system” that functioned through relatively rigid patriarchal hierarchies limiting creative initiative. This system produced the Vietnam war, cities shrouded in smog, rivers so polluted they burned, ghettos, segregation, race riots, poverty in the midst of plenty, repressive and tortuous economic and military relationships with “developing” countries, and a large middle class living a hollow Leave-it-to-Beaver lifestyle: seemingly devoid of meaning, jingoistic, damaging to the environment, and emotionally phony. We would not be plastic people, we would be real.

We were hippies. We didn’t believe the stories our culture told to explain the realities of our lives and the actions of our leaders. We came to the forest, because we didn’t fit, or didn’t want to fit, into the society we knew. Or perhaps, we came to search for a collective relationship to the natural world which would heal the damage we held inside ourselves and, we hoped, heal the culture we came from. We were arrogant enough to believe that we could show the way, wherever we were going.

We aimed to be “self-sufficient” and to divorce ourselves from the “military industrial complex”. Ideologically and culturally, if not in fact, we rejected consumerism, professional careerism, and technology in general. We wore beads, leather, sandals, long hair, shells, feathers, buck knives, leather pouches, and amulets. The appropriation of the trappings of tribal culture was no accident. Many of us wanted to live by the old ways, which we did not know.

And, we smoked marijuana. Rightly or wrongly, many of us felt that marijuana was a “mind expanding” drug, that it had opened our minds to a keener or deeper aesthetic and spiritual appreciation of music, relationships, art, sex, and the beauty inherent our natural surroundings. Marijuana was credited with improving the capacity to perceive connections between apparently disparate concepts and phenomena. And, perhaps, it did break down the ability to maintain rigid, logical boundaries between conceptual categories and disciplines, and enable one to perceive the world more directly. Sometimes to the detriment of whatever project you might be working on. Of course many people also used marijuana as an escape from responsibility, as a way to avoid facing unpleasant personal realities, as a pleasant way to relieve stress, and as a defense against intimacy in relationships.

We had lots of ideas, and even more opinions, but most of us knew almost nothing about what we were doing. Just being there was an act of faith and vision, or disgust and desperation, depending on what opportunities or constraints we left behind. We were primarily suburban and urban refugees with little, if any, experience in farm or homestead skills. We bought cheap land and built cabins from found, natural and recycled sources. At the time, we called it “scrounging” materials. We planted gardens and fruit trees, used kerosene lights, heated our cabins with wood, got our windows from U-Needa-Window used windows and doors in Berkeley, ran gravity fed cold water through plastic waterpipe to our scrounged sinks, and stopped wearing our watches. We had no electricity, no stereo, and no radio reception: we made our own music. We became aware of the phases of the moon and celebrated when the moon was full. We swam naked and often, we worked outside, we ate when we were hungry, and slept when we were tired. We could tell time by the position of the sun. We spent naked days camped at the beach eating surf fish, mussels, and abalone.

We wanted community and we wanted isolation, privacy. While mostly young, white, and middle class we were not necessarily a homogenous group. We were college educated and high school dropouts. We were wealthy scions and unemployed laborers. We were draft dodgers and Vietnam veterans. We were pacifists and we were anti gun control. We were Buddhists, Christians, Pagans, Taoists and agnostics. We were apolitical and we were democratic, socialist, anarchist and libertarian. We believed in new age philosophies and we were cynics and skeptics. We believed in communal lifestyles and we were individualists (often in the same person).

Some of us arrived single and some as couples, but many couples did not last the first winter together. Summers could be idyllic, but winters were rainy, dark, and difficult. Wet or green firewood, frozen waterlines, small cabins, broken cars and washed out roads taxed the endurance, finances, and homesteading skills of us all. The concept of “cabin fever” took on substance as a kind of forced withdrawal from the constant social and technological stimulation of “civilized” behavior patterns. Single parent families and multiple family children were common. We needed each other and we knew it.

No one I know succeeded in being self-sufficient, I rarely hear the phrase today. There were certain technological products few of us managed to do without: roads, cars, chainsaws, propane stoves and plastic water pipe. Our efforts were financed in various ways including: savings, equity from previous homes in the city, low-paying jobs in the local economy, seasonal work, periodic spells of work in more populated areas, parental support, welfare, commodities, and food stamps. Rarely was anyone able to make it off the resources on their land.

And we grew older. We learned carpentry, gardening, auto mechanics, and road maintenance skills. We made jewelry, leather goods, pottery, hand-carved pipes, wooden boxes, spoons and ladles, macramé, and all manner of crafts. As our homesteads became livable our attention turned to building alternative institutions: a health center, schools and community centers. We learned about forest rhythms of growth and recovery on the cut-over lands we purchased. The scars from recent logging (stumps, skid trails, and silted up streams eating away at their banks), viewed from the perspective of the remaining stands of old growth, were graphic reminders of what had very recently been lost. Often the roads we drove in on were old haul roads and themselves the most vivid scars on the landscape. We felt this loss, and eventually this responsibility, and began the process of recovering what we thought had been.

Ironically, and quite naturally, one of the main flags of our rebellion was the instrument that co-opted our idealism. At the same time that we began this community building and restoration effort we discovered that marijuana grew quite well in this region. When we learned that pulling the male plants and leaving the females to flower without fertilization created a very tasty bud with a high THC content, the nature of the community’s relationship to marijuana began to change. This development was almost inevitable. Marijuana seeds, tossed into the compost or dropped outside the cabin sprouted easily. Planted in a vegetable garden “weed” out produced everything else, except, perhaps, zucchini. Cannabis is a hardy plant and even a poor gardener can reap a decent harvest. As the prices for high quality home grown began to rise, the entire socioeconomic foundation of our community changed radically.

If there was ever an opportunity to recreate community on a more holistic model and to integrate day to day community activities with an ecological awareness and progressive social commitment, this was it. It was a compelling and hopeful time. The community was potentially funded to set itself up for a sustainable and equitable future.

Access to capital provided by marijuana funded numerous visions, dreams, and ambitions. Cabins became beautiful hand crafted houses. Gardens flourished, tools, generators and well equipped craft shops began to emerge all through the hills. Artists of all kinds pursued their art, a successful travel agent appeared in town, dance classes and elaborate amateur plays and dance productions were presented. We organized arts and crafts fairs where we sold our hand thrown pots or hand woven rugs and we danced and we sang.

Benefit boogies thrived and raised money for various non-profit efforts. Community centers and alternative schools found the support and involvement necessary to experiment and thrive. A health center was founded, committed to alternative therapies, preventative medicine, and patient centered care. As the community became more involved in creating institutions we searched for non-hierarchical models of organization, we made decisions by consensus, we paid everyone equally, and we took our organizational memberships seriously.

Businesses started up offering alternative, environmentally responsible, power sources: photovoltaic panels, water wheels, and wind generators for electricity, and wood fired and solar hot water heaters, even a wood fired hot tub.

People committed time and energy to salmon rearing projects and stream restoration efforts. Watershed based organizations began to appear and efforts to protect remaining intact habitats began to bring our concerns to government regulatory and public land management agencies. We learned words like biodiversity and mitigation. We began to learn more and more about place, the forest we had come to live in.

And, we thought we were really cool… funky, righteous, and cool. Being somewhat out of touch with the rest of the world, we, quite naturally, began to believe we were the counter cultural center of the known universe.

We grew older. We became established. Our family relationships, whether traditional, step-parent, or same sex, became more stable and nuclear. Our children grew older and many entered the public school system. We became well acquainted with our property lines. Fences, gates, and no trespassing signs began to appear. We no longer needed each other in the same ways. Some of us became quite well off. Those of us who did not grow weed benefited from the multiplier effect of the general prosperity. We built shops and additions, and bought new vehicles, tools, inverters, satellite dishes, stereos, TV’s, VCR’s, and all manner of consumer items. I don’t mean that we had no restraint, but we sought comfort and the security of some type of means of production. Because we had items of value, rip-offs began to occur. Some of us felt compelled to defend property with guns. Conscientious tracking and distrust of outsiders was endemic to the area. There were accidents and people were hurt and killed. In a very real way, we, as a community, lost our innocence.

This community was sandbagged by marijuana, the perfect vehicle to deconstruct our idealism. Because marijuana was already a part of our culture we had little inherent resistance to growing it. It was low-tech, natural, and organic and the production of marijuana was consistent with the parameters of our needs for economic support. We could stay where we were, work flexible hours, work outside, stay close to nature, earn a living, and remain apparently separate from mainstream American society. As it turned out the money itself and the access to status, respect, power and material well-being that it represented was enough to actuate and dramatize our own internal inconsistencies. And then intense, annual aerial community surveillance and repression of marijuana cultivation by local and federal law enforcement began.

Obstacles to our holistic eco-community building efforts presented themselves. Our buildings effort were literally and metaphorically red-tagged by the building inspector. Our stream and fish restoration projects were undermined by upstream logging. Watershed advocacy groups met with powerful opposition from large timber companies who appeared to have undue influence on government regulatory and management agencies. We saw that we could not remain isolated as a community even as we were becoming more distant from each other. We sought funding from government agencies and foundations for restoration efforts, for our health center, and various other non-profit activities. Our institutions, in the process of striving for competitive funding resources and coping with the responsibilities inherent in organizational growth and development, began to assume more traditional hierarchical structures as a part of our efforts to overcome financial and organizational obstacles to the realization of a (we thought) shared vision.

From my perspective, inherent dichotomies in the community began to express themselves at this time. In the face of obstacles and uncertainty, and given the opportunity, we began to act on the assumptions inherent in our childhood social contexts. When we had nothing or very little we recognized our common ground, and maintained a commitment to changing our relationships to each other and the environment. As our vision confronted the sources of power in our remote communities: private capital, corporate influence, local government , law enforcement, and state and federal government agencies, and as the stakes grew higher in terms of private property, career development/advancement, and organizational growth and influence, we displayed a tendency to revert to models familiar to our heterogeneous backgrounds. Those of us able to articulate issues in a language understood by businessman, foundations, scientists, courts, politicians and bureaucrats formulated strategies for moving our agendas forward and rose to leadership positions within our businesses, our organizations and our communities. Paradoxically and rationally, we began to recreate the business, social, and organizational models we intended to leave behind in order to further the development of our vision of equitable sustainability. Although significantly different from more mainstream efforts, our institutions no longer represented a paradigm shift. These models of our own creation now stand between us and a direct relationship to each other, and to nature, the sources of the sustenance we originally and instinctively sought in coming back to the land.

What stopped us?

We instinctively attempted to escape a downward spiral of participation in, and association with, increasingly pathological social behavior. We tried to heal ourselves through a commitment to creating a way of living that honored community and environmental integrity. Out of our alienation from and disenchantment with modern industrial society we reached for a connection to what was real and grounded: a direct relationship to a natural environment. Our efforts ran up against two powerful obstacles:

the political, social and economic clout of the dominate interests in our remote area, our own world views and ambitions which we inescapably and unconsciously brought with us.

Although, society as a whole is much more complex, the basic dynamics operating in this experience demonstrates the way that the “benefits” of technological prowess, and rational, dualistic, enlightenment appeal to our personal needs for comfort, security, status and respect. Our inability to develop the personal power to articulate effective, coherent alternatives capable of resisting the combination of temptation, coercion, and entrenched hegemony wielded by elite corporations and government representatives leaves our best intentions vulnerable to co-optation.

We want to develop community strategies for socially equitable, and ecologically effective, restoration and renewal. Such strategies must have the political and economic clout to counteract vested interests in our culture. This process is inherently and necessarily a personal healing process in which we confront powerful motivations integral to our own psychological and paradigmatic vested interests in the status quo which act to undermine our efforts.

To heal the personal distress, grief, and alienation we feel as members of an industrial society which is deconstructing the natural world, we want to create healthy community relationships to our immediate ecosystems. This is an inherently political process in which we encounter powerful external vested interests which act to subvert our efforts.

The power of external vested interests is a direct expression of our personal participation, which we cannot evade, in the paradigm we want to change. We cannot confront one without confronting the other. When we challenge them both, it is our highest expression of psychological health and wholeness.

As the Doonesbury comic strip character said in one of the panels about the Vietnam war, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

As we protested, humans, dressed as salmon, swam up the road to Fisher gate on Pacific Lumber property in an attempt to spawn, and were arrested. Then the highway patrol dove into the crowd looking for leaders and cameras. We drove home in our fossil fuel powered vehicle, past the old stumps, the old growth, and the second growth up the old logging road to our wood framed house. We ate some chicken raised in Petaluma, and watched a video made from petroleum by-products. The next day we gathered oyster mushrooms from the woods around our house and watched the mist, drifting through the valley, draped over the saddle in the ridge between our watershed and the next. We checked in on the Pacific salamander that lives under the plywood over by the garden. We mixed some of the acorn mush we made into a cookie recipe and had some ice cream made in Vermont. We went to bed early, the next day was work and school. A direct experience of relationship to nature is not a simple thing.

Comments:
A direct experience of relationship to nature is not a simple thing.


Very true. Thankyou for your fascinating story. Well written and very thoughtful. I sympathize with your love of Nature and sweet, sacred marijuana. Very interesting and sad to see how money has been a corrupting influence.

But of course money is not "the root of all evil". The root of all evil is egocentricity. And egocentricity is a pervasive pathology within Nature, as well as humanity. Those who worship Nature indiscriminately, using it as the measuring rod for all that is "good" and "right", are seriously misleading themselves.

Predators are inherent to Nature, and predators within the human race are destroying Nature. Since the human race is very much a product of Nature, we see that it is Nature which is destroying and poisoning itself, through us.

MAXXAM/PL, criminal cops, the babykilling U.S. military, the corporate plutocracy which rules this country -- they are all predators, like wolves and rattlesnakes and other predators within Nature. Human predators have the primitive mentality of animals, and everything they do is simply the logic of their predatory egocentricity.

Unlike wolves and rattlesnakes, however, human beings have the capacity to transcend the pathological, predatory egocentricity which afflicts Nature as a spiritual disease. If we don't transcend it -- soon, and in very large numbers -- we are all going to die most horribly.

Technological civilization is a painful skin cancer on the body of the Earth, and our planet is going to heal itself, physically, by eliminating the cancer cells with a little "radiation therapy", a.k.a. global warming.

Global warming will precpitate increasing natural disasters and climatological extremes, which, sooner or later (probably sooner), will precipate economic collapse in America. When America's economy crashes, the world economy will crash. And within each country, particularly in violence-worshiping America, all hell will break loose. Economic collapse will cause political chaos, which will lead to massive violence -- by the state against citizens, and by citizens against fellow citizens -- which will spiral down to total civilizational collapse in the course of a few years.

As governments collapse at all levels and chaos reigns, people will fight and kill each other in competition over food and other resources. Very large numbers of people will starve to death, and, as a byproduct of general poverty and starvation, all manner of diseases will spread around the world and kill many more people. Thus the massive die-off of the human race will escalate and continue until the vast majority of people are gone.

No doubt a small percentage of humans will survive in isolated pockets around the globe to regenerate the human race. Hopefully they will have learned the spiritual lessons of the collapse. But if in the course of succeeding generations these lessons are forgotten again, they will build another destructive civilization which will likewise collapse. And it will all be due to Nature's own pathological egocentricity -- which afflicted humans simply magnify.

Therefore it's a great mistake for we humans to look to Nature as the grand exemplar of all that is healthy and wholesome. Nature has some incredibly beautiful and healthy aspects, to be sure, but Nature is also deeply sick, spiritually. It's the responsibility of human beings, as the most advanced physical aspect of Nature, to transcend this egocentric spiritual sickness. That's the only way we'll ever turn planet Earth into a paradise.
 
Thank you but I think I'll take my Jesus straight up, not mixed with survivalist nazism.

Now, back to the homesteader's piece. There is still this glorification of back-to-the-land- ideology that is blind to eco-reality. Why is it so damned hard for homesteaders to understand that their sheer numbers invading fragile watersheds are the biggest eco-problem in Humboldt County? The figure I use, 10,000+, is a conservative number based on the old Sequoia County Initiative research. I asked John Campbell if Palco had ever estimated how many homesteaders were in their surrounding area and he remembered them coming up with something like 10,000 too. So it's an out of date estimate. That's a lot of people moving into a rural area in a relatively short period of time. A lot of people with only rudimentary ecological knowledge and no experience. And it shows, still shows today, e.g., the inability to understand the numbers game cited above and what that numbers game means in terms of sedimentation, water consumption, foreign species introduction, and pollution of local streamways. Also not seen as it should be is the obvious dirt road way systems that service homesteads, the majority of which are not old logging roads but relatively newly carved by subdividers like Bob McKee. I know this because I have helped Bob survey such roads and I've seen what happens when those miles and miles of dirt roads bleed mud and silt into the creeks. Having ordered in three homestead driveways, one a quarter mile in length I'd say, I too am responsible for my share of a continuing movement of mud into the S.fork of Salmon Creek. Each one of those blue clay areas is unstable earth and the roads cut through hundreds of them. The land moves in the rains, and there's going to be environmental impact of thousands of vehicles going up and down those dirt roads each wheel of every car and truck grinding away the rock and dirt into finer particles to be washed away downhill and into the streams there to fill up deep streambed holes the salmonid species need.

Really the main problem facing back-to-the-landers in my opinion is facing reality, getting rid of the arrogance that believes it's "we've arrived, (you haven't)" views are it. Certainly no minions of the evil corporate capitalist Maxxam have anything to say as homesteaders laud their political attack army of tree-sitters and law-suiters against the mainstream communities they think are so less than themselves.

Meanwhile, the salmon swim on Palco lands but where are they on lands in homesteader ownership and control for a quarter century now?

That's why I say it's a matter of hypocrisy that has to be faced by the homestead movement and the politicos and enviros whose projects live off this mass movement that acts more like pampas grass invaders than anything resembling native peoples.
 
As I am not one to only criticize the efforts of others I am posting on my blogsite the philosophical paradigm that will and is bringing about a new type of civilization, one based on biological principles hidden beneath historic social evolution. The new paradigm is creating Climax Civilization. This explains the way Creation works and our role in it.
 
This was an interesting piece. The writer, would be a male in his late 50's to early 60's.

A romantisized version of how the marijuana industry corrupted our county and became "our dirty little secret" that everyone knows about but seldom talks about in public.

I too was surprised at the very few negative comments or comments from "apologists on Eric's marijuana industry blog. I thought that some may be angry for bringing up that the Mateel and Beginnings was funded, or partially funded, by marijuana money.

Eric's guest writer, the "long tme Mateel resident and cultural participant" makes himself out to be some kind of eco-hero, a hero of the revolution so to speak.

I marvel at how your "hero" so easily talks about being complelled to "defend property with guns" and goes on to say that "people were hurt and killed". Today what do you think your "hero" would say if some guy in Eureka shot a 19 year old for stealing his HD TV ? Your "Hero" would be outraged ! Or what if a highway patrol shot and wounded a teenager for stealing a car ! Your "hero" would be outraged ! But shoot some kid for stealing marijuana or trespessing in SoHum, well that's just fine ! Oh well "people were hurt and killed".

But I guess we can overlook that because your "hero" made lots of money and contributed to the Mateel, schools, and had "benefit boogies"!

If the story, folk lore, about getting back to the land is true things sure have taken on a different twist. These "heros" bulldoze roads all over, make personal airstrips, or motocross tracks for their entertainment but any damage to the rivers is because of PL ? Now these "hero's" bury containters to grow their marijuana and use deisel generators to power their criminal enterprise. But off course they collect their used motor oil and take it to Laytonville to be recycled ?!?!?! And I'm sure the air quality is just great with all the generators going non stop. And of course only a few fires are started by these hidden monster generators overheating !?!?!?!

You can dress it up any way you like but your "Mateel resident and cultural participant" is nothing short of a hypocrite, not to mention a dope growing criminal. Oh yes, back to the land. And what of your "hero's" kids, children ? Did they go to college and become environmentists ? Go into the Peace Corps ? Join the Military ? Do anything for their community or country? Or are they just second generation dope growers on their way to making a third generation of dope growers while driving $45,000.00 SUV's and 4x4 pickups that get 10 - 12 mpg ??
 
this should make for an interesting response ! from eric or somebody.
 
political attack army of tree-sitters and law-suiters against the mainstream communities

Steve, Pacific Lumber has waged political attacks against mainstream communities, not the other way around.

8:48 - you called the essayest a "hero" so you are only quoting yourself. He did not claim to be a hero and did not come off like he thought he was a hero. He also did not say he was complelled to "defend property with guns," but that some were. It's an honest observation.
 
Heraldo, how so? You just throw out any anti-Palco statement that comes to mind? Your statement is ridiculous and lacks any sort of proof.
 
heraldo, honest observation .... BS, the guy's a long term crook and a blight on Humboldt County. The back to the land hippie is trying to make himself look like some kind of pioneer. Like he, and his kind, have done anything for the local envirnonment! All they have done is line their own pockets and take care of their own circle of crooks.

Just in case you're as dumb as I think you are, the "back to the land" dope growers of the 70's and 80's used thousands of pounds of rat poison in their gardens. They killed deer at random (hundreds, maybe even thousands)because the deer nibbled on their marijuana. They threw beer bottles and trash everywhere. They left travel trailers and mobile homes all over. They would drive a vehicle or motorcyle till it quit and then just left it.

Environmentalists?

That dog just don't hunt !

Eric and Heraldo are one ?
 
The recall and the attending rhetoric Maxxam shoved down Humboldt County's throat comes to mind as a political attack against the mainstream.

Perhaps the landslides and flooding are not an attack by PL on mainstream locals, and those folks (who PL CEO Robert Manne described as “leading empty lives”) would be more aptly described as collateral damage.
 
I think the problem here is in trying assert that the author of that piece somehow speaks for all the people of a given community. Similarly, when either side judges a whole community based on the actions of a few, it maligns those who are innocent.

Some hippies carried guns, used rat poisin, killed deer, etc. I have no doubt that is true. I also have no doubt that many, and most likely the vast majority, did not. However, they were a part of the broader community which may have tacitly accepted some of these practices, and so they perhaps share some complicity due to their silence. Of course, this constitutes a rather un-libertarian point of view, suggesting that folks had a responsibility to regulate their neighbors actions on their own private property.

Personally, I read that article as an honest and self-effacing piece. The author is willing to examine his or her community's flaws, and to take ownership of the problems that the 'movement' caused. There is a certain amount of self-justification going on there, but few of us would do much better at publicly baring our shortcomings, whatever they may be.

Interesting narrative, written by someone with a specific history and a specific point of view. IT does not assert itself as the objective truth. It would be foolish for anyone to see it as such.
 
Heraldo and I are one. I am the toad. You are the toad. We are all the toad.

Nevermind. Obscure cultural reference.

Anyway, I'm impressed with the depth of the responses, and I will address as many points as I can when I can. It won't happen right away however as I've got a lot on my plate at work right now, and tonight I'm going to be joining my son at his kindergarten camp down at Benbow tonight. He still wants one of us to be with him for bedtime, though he's fine on his own the rest of the day. I may be able to slip something in later, but I've got something else on my mind for a new post that will probably take priority.

I will say this to one of the anonymous posters, you have our "hero" completely wrong, and you're probably misjudging his motives for anonymity. That's really all I'm going to say about the individual.

Later.
 
But does the collectivist shoe fit?
 
heraldo (1:14) you just throw out some PL BS ! And you throw the recall in for good measure. Not eaverything has to do with PL or the recall !
 
"The recall and the attending rhetoric Maxxam shoved down Humboldt County's throat comes to mind as a political attack against the mainstream."

Comparing the amount of print found in letters to the editor, lawsuit press releases, and media shows like on KMUD, it is obvious to anyone but the die-hard progressive fanatic that progressives and enviros easily outstripped the amount of public pressure put out by Maxxam with its only real clout seen in full-page ads in the T-S.

Activists here are blind when it comes to gauging their opposition. It's overkill almost everytime because the opposition they fear so greatly is not known massive political organizing and campaigning ala the efforts of AEB and Local Solutions. And then's there's the glaring fact, Heraldo, that Maxxam has given thousands of Humboldt County mainstream residents a means of making a living while activists are busily taking jobs away from Humboldt residents and replacing them with nothing.

"Perhaps the landslides and flooding are not an attack by PL on mainstream locals, and those folks (who PL CEO Robert Manne described as “leading empty lives”) would be more aptly described as collateral damage."

Perhaps you should do the math. 220 Palco workers in field on any given day working under America's most stringent commercial logging environmental regulations are not capable of matching the eco-destructiven impact of 10,000+ homesteaders doing their thing with virtually no environmental regulations. Add to this the fact that those 220 Palco workers activity is rotating through a huge acreage so that most of Palco lands aren't being impacted by humans at all while environmental impact goes on continually throughout the homestead subdivision acreages.

In short, get your environmental facts right before automatically making assumptions about the "other guy". You know, get the log out your eye before dissing loggers.
 
I don't believe that Heraldo is a homesteader Steven. The location indicated over at his blog says Eureka.
 
Then he's picked up progressive and enviro anti-Palco propaganda and is now continuing to foist their environmental disinformation crap on our community. The critters aren't into politics and they can't tell a homesteader from a logger when both are doing stuff that ruins their ability to survive.
 
Well, the only point I was making is that it isn't necessarily hypocritical to criticize PL without criticizing other groups causing environmental problems. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain the city of Eureka and those within it are also responsible for environmental problems. Heraldo may even eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream and fruit out of season.

But it's a question of degree I would think.

Your point about the dirt roads is well taken however. I've met nobody who disagrees with you. But the cluster living model isn't going to happen at this point, and the other solutions are cost-prohibitive, a problem not uncommon in environmental issues.

And while I certainly believe this should result in humility with regard to judging the loggers themselves, I'm not sure you can argue equivalency with the PL management, which singularly has the power to make direct differences in the impact of the company's activities.
 
Once again you've put the focus somewhere else. You Eric are the one that printed the counter culture, back to the land nature, dope grower bullshit. Between you and Heraldo you've spun it back to PL cause you don't like what was said about your dope growing former hippie. Stick to what you started.

And then you throw in that the city of Eureka is responsible for the environmental problems. Deal with what you started ! What about you SoHum dope growing buddies ? You know the ones you make a substantial part of your living from ! Next thing you know you two lamos will blame all the environmental issues on Arkley.

Try responding to anon 8:48 ? You can't becasue it's too true and the truth hurts !
 
Steven, some people in the community don't need rhetoric from either side to know where they stand, especially when their houses are flooded.

The responsibility for the loss of jobs lies at the feet of Maxxam. I'm surprised you give enviros so much credit.

8:48 completely misrepresented the essay.

And Eric, I am the Egg Man, koo koo kachoo.
 
You are such a moron Heraldo. You can blame everything on PL or Maxxum. They must be responsible for gobal warming too. Maybe it's PL's fault that I have some weeds in my yard ?

I didn't misrepresent anything. I made my own comments, you know FREE speech.

and you're more like the Walrus.
 
"MAXXAM/PL, criminal cops, the babykilling U.S. military, the corporate plutocracy which rules this country -- they are all predators, like wolves and rattlesnakes"

That is a fact, and the sooner Maxxam-Plunderco becomes extinct the better off the decent people of this county will be.


"Technological civilization is a painful skin cancer on the body of the Earth,"

That's an interesting way to see it. I've always thought something like that when looking at aerial photographs of cities and towns. They look like some kind of dry, scabby, grayish skin disease compared to the natural land around them. And the roads and highways are like the arms of a tumor which spread outward to infect other areas of the body.


"Therefore it's a great mistake for we humans to look to Nature as the grand exemplar of all that is healthy and wholesome. Nature has some incredibly beautiful and healthy aspects, to be sure, but Nature is also deeply sick, spiritually. It's the responsibility of human beings, as the most advanced physical aspect of Nature, to transcend this egocentric spiritual sickness. That's the only way we'll ever turn planet Earth into a paradise."

Yeah I think nature is both good and bad, like people, and I don't agree with those who see only one side of it. I don't think the solutions to our problems will ever be found through shallow materialism alone. The source of humanity's problems is much deeper than that, and if people focus only on the symptoms and ignore the underlying moral causes, the problems will never be solved.
 
I am posting on my blogsite the philosophical paradigm that will and is bringing about a new type of civilization, one based on biological principles hidden beneath historic social evolution. The new paradigm is creating Climax Civilization. This explains the way Creation works and our role in it.
# posted by Steve Lewis : 7:07 AM


Thank you but I think I'll take my Jesus straight up, not mixed with Bio-creationalist Climaxism.

Now, back to the homesteader's piece.

Our inability to develop the personal power to articulate effective, coherent alternatives capable of resisting the combination of temptation, coercion, and entrenched hegemony wielded by elite corporations and government representatives leaves our best intentions vulnerable to co-optation.
...
The power of external vested interests is a direct expression of our personal participation, which we cannot evade, in the paradigm we want to change. We cannot confront one without confronting the other. When we challenge them both, it is our highest expression of psychological health and wholeness.

As the Doonesbury comic strip character said in one of the panels about the Vietnam war [genocide], "We have met the enemy, and he is us."



This is really the key, both for individuals and for society as a whole. Clearly there is a need for massive, nonviolent, democratic revolution to take power away from the corporate mafia government. But that type of external revolution can happen only on the basis of purifying internal revolutions within millions of people.

What form that internal revolution takes is up to each individual. But for the external revolution, the most essential and effective strategy is one of nonviolent non-cooperation with evil, particularly the evil of the criminal ruling order. This means especially the non-payment of federal income taxes. As the tax-resister organization says: "If you work for peace, stop paying for war."

Good people condemn the crimes and exploitation of The System, and yet too many of them keep paying the very taxes which keep that genocidal System alive. That's like suffering from lung cancer and yet continuing to smoke cigarettes.
 
"corporate mafia government" ?

"the evil of the criminal ruling order" ?

"MASSIVE, NONVIOLENT DEMOCRATIC REOVOLUTION" ?

Man are you fucked up in the head !
Too much marijuana !

what did that have to do with the homdsteader piece ?????
 
"Steven, some people in the community don't need rhetoric from either side to know where they stand, especially when their houses are flooded."

Heraldo, I've heard the complaints of people foolish enough to build their homes on historic river flood plains long enough to be rather tired of enviros using this scam to fool the public at large while bashing Palco.

Humboldt County has the most shaken land in the nation and the highest rainfall except for the Olympic Penisula. Landslides, earth movement are constants here. The Eel river carries the most sediment/volume of water of any U.S. river. We all can do more to cut down the sediment loads. And we can start being smarter about where we build our homes and roads. And we can be wiser to spot opportunistic activists and flood plain home-owners trying to use the natural flooding patterns of Humboldt County to score points and milk money from the local corporate target.
 
I have been posting communitarian visions I've have developed to various degrees (or not as in the case of most of them) on my blogsite. These eutopian visions are doing anyone any good sitting in my file boxes for years and I'm not getting any younger. Therefore, I am beginning to download all my major social, environmental, economic, political, technological, philosophical, and spiritual ideas in hopes that people here will find something amongst them to inspire further cooperative community building.

There is now and has been for years a complete lack of social change activists in Humboldt County with any holistic vision of comprehensive social change. I am stepping up to the plate of assuming intellectual leadership of the social change activist movement in Humboldt County because no one else has done the job correctly.

The only thing local activists have accomplished is splitting the Humboldt County community into two warring camps each determined the other is the evil empire in our very midst. I aim to bridge the gap and bring the two halves back together because I can.
 
Man are you fucked up in the head !
Too much marijuana !

what did that have to do with the homdsteader piece ?????



Well, if you had an I.Q. of at least 100, and if you had enough of a clue to put down your Budweiser, switch off the boob tube and pull your head out of your @$$ for a moment, you would know.

But you don't, you can't and you won't, so we'll just leave you to your ignorant bottle-sucking bliss.
 
Steve, I'm astonished and delighted with your anti-Zionist posts on your blog. It's rare to see someone with the courage to publicly criticize the most powerful and ruthless special-interest group in America.

This makes me much more interested in the communitarian visions you have. Could you summarize them here?
 
I've heard the complaints of people foolish enough to build their homes on historic river flood plains long enough to be rather tired of enviros using this scam to fool the public at large while bashing Palco.

When hundred-year floods turned into five-times-or-more-per-year floods in the '90's concurrent with PL's ramped up rate of logging, the connection was easy to see. And it wasn't just your chosen enemies at EPIC who were complaining, but mainstream, regular people.
 
that was somewhat entertaining 7:03 but you didn't say anything !
 
What does Steve's anti Zionist opinion have to do with the so hum ecological roots ?

Oh yes, nothing but it gets us off the issue at hand. Afterall 7:34 could have put his comments directly on Steves Blog !

undercover Eric ?
 
Okay, we're getting dangerously close to anti-semitism here, unless you'd like to clarify your statement anon 734?

Try responding to anon 8:48 ? You can't becasue it's too true and the truth hurts !

Gee, was that like a double dare?


This was an interesting piece. The writer, would be a male in his late 50's to early 60's.

I'm not going to confirm or deny anything that would describe the author.

A romantisized version of how the marijuana industry corrupted our county and became "our dirty little secret" that everyone knows about but seldom talks about in public.

You found that account of the marijuana industry romantic? Did we read the same piece? "This community was sandbagged by marijuana, the perfect vehicle to deconstruct our idealism." I'm missing the romance.

I too was surprised at the very few negative comments or comments from "apologists on Eric's marijuana industry blog. I thought that some may be angry for bringing up that the Mateel and Beginnings was funded, or partially funded, by marijuana money.

I've had angry calls on my radio show when I've committed heresy in the eyes of some around here who hold the plant in semi-religious awe. But I think there are also a large number of people who've grown up a bit and realize the downside of their endeavor, but are also too old to do anything else that will get their children through college, make the mortgage payments, and ensure some kind of retirement. And a number of them made their money and got out, but are hesitant to judge others seeking the same type of fortune. As with most rural economies, everything is invested in one or two industries, and it creates a bit of a trap. But the population down here is educated (we use the library the most, proportionate to our numbers (according to the librarians) and many down here appreciate all of the ironies mentioned in my piece and the piece we are discussing. But short of letting themselves slide into poverty, and allowing the place to become a ghost town like Hayfork, nobody has come up with any good solutions to the problem. Of course, the ultimate irony is that this will happen if they succeed in getting the substance legalized.

Eric's guest writer, the "long tme Mateel resident and cultural participant" makes himself out to be some kind of eco-hero, a hero of the revolution so to speak.

Again, I think you're seriously misreading the piece.

I marvel at how your "hero" so easily talks about being complelled to "defend property with guns" and goes on to say that "people were hurt and killed". Today what do you think your "hero" would say if some guy in Eureka shot a 19 year old for stealing his HD TV ? Your "Hero" would be outraged ! Or what if a highway patrol shot and wounded a teenager for stealing a car ! Your "hero" would be outraged ! But shoot some kid for stealing marijuana or trespessing in SoHum, well that's just fine ! Oh well "people were hurt and killed".

You definitely misread that portion. Hence the phrase "some of us."

But I guess we can overlook that because your "hero" made lots of money and contributed to the Mateel, schools, and had "benefit boogies"!

I wish I could say more about this individual, other than to say that the piece actually understates his commitment to the community.

If the story, folk lore, about getting back to the land is true things sure have taken on a different twist. These "heros" bulldoze roads all over, make personal airstrips, or motocross tracks for their entertainment but any damage to the rivers is because of PL ? Now these "hero's" bury containters to grow their marijuana and use deisel generators to power their criminal enterprise. But off course they collect their used motor oil and take it to Laytonville to be recycled ?!?!?! And I'm sure the air quality is just great with all the generators going non stop. And of course only a few fires are started by these hidden monster generators overheating !?!?!?!

I don't know if the marijuana generators have a significant impact on air quality. I suspect the household generators which are on full time probably do more damage, and there are remote locations in which you can hear a background humming in the evening which I wonder if it's one generator I'm hearing, or a collective background buzz. Most people bury their generators, but there are a few jerks who run the thing blaring across the valley all night long. Thing is, I don't know that these latter people all fit into the counter-culture framework. We've got plenty of "rednecks" here as well, many of whom also grow dope.


You can dress it up any way you like but your "Mateel resident and cultural participant" is nothing short of a hypocrite, not to mention a dope growing criminal. Oh yes, back to the land. And what of your "hero's" kids, children ? Did they go to college and become environmentists ? Go into the Peace Corps ? Join the Military ? Do anything for their community or country? Or are they just second generation dope growers on their way to making a third generation of dope growers while driving $45,000.00 SUV's and 4x4 pickups that get 10 - 12 mpg ??

I wish I could talk about that, other than to say you're way off base.
 
It would suprise most of you to know that the author of that piece is actually Roger Rodoni.

Yes, that's a joke.
 
Hmmm..I make the most outrageous egotistical statements and nobody's even blinking. Nobody even asked if I'd taken my meds today. I have, btw,..

"A cookie a day takes the blues away.

A cookie in the morning

A cookie at night

Makes the world all right."

Well, I am willing to show activists how to bring dramatic positive social change into Humboldt County but I don't know if they can get over the old Alpha territorial battling behavior that ruins so many social change projects. It's a wonder our nation's founders ever worked enough together to forge this country in rebellion to England.

I can play the Alpha game as well as anyone but to me there's only one point to such effort which is to establish a dominant social change program, one that works to bring about holistic social and environmental change to Humboldt County. I'm not into continuing the inter-alpha battles now that I've established my top bullshitter position as Humboldt County's top activist brain in service to God and Country.
 
Steve you've made several good points, but your obvious dislike of Jews takes away from anything good you say. Just when I think you're in normal range you go off on a rant !

And I'm glad you took your medicaation this morning.
 
Anon 734, you can read about my communitarian visions now on my blogsite. I will be adding more soon.

It may be that eric won't allow discussion of zionist influence on U.S. foreign policy on his blog site. I hold the record for getting banned from America's biggest religious discussion forum, Beliefnet which is owned by ABC. I get banished from the boards every time I post any criticism of Judaism, Zionism, or Israel. I once posted direct quotes from the Gospel of John and found the post deleted and myself kicked off for posting "anti-Semitism".
 
yup Eric that was a double dare.

And I'm happy that you finally responded but !!! Remember Eric, FACTS, FACTS, give me some FACTS. Your statements are light on FACTS. And as we all know you're the one always calling for FACTS.

Oh Eric I'm not way off base as you say. Most everything is right on target and you know it. Not everyone in SoHum is the same but it is still right on the mark.

As far as the romance goes, I meant you boy tries to romanticize what he (and others) have done. Trying to make himself out to be an idealistic modern day environmentalist Robin Hood. Forgive me but I thought you were bright enough to catch on.

And it's interesting to hear that you think it's OK to continue to grow and sell marijuana if the Robin Hood grower has a mortgage, needs to send his kids to college, and or wants to secure his retirement. I guess that makes it all OK ? We couldn't expect Robin Hood to pay into social security, income tax and things like that. Oh I know you'll come back with something about your boy Robin paying income tax. But does Robin and his kind pay taxes that are in line with his INCOME ? Don't even try to clean that one up or it will confirm my worst suspicions about you. And sometimes I do enjoy and appreciate some of the stuff you put out.

For someone that is always banging on FACTS, you shoud try it more often.
 
I am a Gnostic Johannine Christian. I have no dislike of Jews but I do believe with all my heart that the Jewish religion, like Evangelical Christianity, and like Islam, are nothing more than enormous religious cults that have been inspired by worship of a schizophrenic war god. These old religious traditions must be composted before there will ever be any real peace in the world. I am publicly most critical now of Judaism's Zionist agenda because of Israel has managed to lock the U.S. in with their racist genocidal goal of reducing Palestinian society to rubble. Israel is the focal point of all the hatred of our country by Middle East Arabs and most all of Islam. So I turn my critical sites on the Zionists now. Islam's turn is coming..
 
sounds like spin to me
 
"but I do believe with all my heart that the Jewish religion, like Evangelical Christianity, and like Islam, are nothing more than enormous religious cults that have been inspired by worship of a schizophrenic war god. These old religious traditions must be composted before there will ever be any real peace in the world. I am publicly most critical now of Judaism's Zionist agenda because of Israel has managed to lock the U.S. in with their racist genocidal goal of reducing Palestinian society to rubble."

All true. Zionism is violent racism, pure and simple. Zionism is literally Jewish Naziism.

Steve, my respect for you is growing by leaps and bounds. Although I'm a bit uncomfortable with your support of Palco, I see you really have a major clue when it comes to cultic exoteric religions, and especially the Zionists' political, legal and psychological chokehold on the American mind and public speech. People are such obedient little pets, aren't they? It's fascinating. Live Pavlov's dogs -- on a short leash.

Even mention the word "Zionism" and we're all trained to shudder "Anti-Semitism!" Mindless. We're so afraid of our masters, aren't we? There's a saying: "If you want to know who is really in control of country, just find out who is talked about in whispers, if at all."

It's no wonder you've been kicked off so many boards and forums. It shows who's really in control of this country. Keep up the good work, Steve. I'm going to take some time to really read your writing carefully. Thanks for speaking out here, on your blog and in your letters to the editor.
 
conspiracy theory ......... whoa
 
Zionism is the belief that Jews should have their own country located in the land of Biblical heritage. The rest is commentary.

So Steve, do you agree with anonymous here? Is there a Jewish conspiracy to kick you off all the boards?
 
conspiracy theory ......... whoa


bark! bark! bark! bark!
 
the sky is falling, the government put a chip in my brain, my phone is tapped, the DEA keeps drugs illegal cause they need a job, Arkley secretly caused Katrina so he could forclose on some little old retarded disabled veteran.

will this ever stop ?
 
Sure, when you start thinking for yourself, moron.
 
"Zionism is the belief that Jews should have their own country located in the land of Biblical heritage. The rest is commentary."

Wrong. The rest is bloody genocide. Zionism is not merely a "belief", Eric. Zionism is a violent, militant, racist nation.

You're so well brainwashed. What a lawyer: "their own country located in the land of Biblical heritage." Good dog. Here's a bone.

"their own country" is located in the land of Palestine. You know, the place where the Palestinian people have lived for thousands of years. The land racist Israeli Zionists invaded. The land racist Israeli Zionists stole, driving most of the Palestinians out of Palestine. The land racist Israelis have soaked with Palestinian blood through massive and systematic Israeli state terrorism for 60 years.

That is Zionism. A whole lot more than a mere "belief".


"do you agree with anonymous here? Is there a Jewish conspiracy to kick you off all the boards?"

Note, Eric, that the word "conspiracy" is your word, not that of 12:49. You're starting to twist what people say. Is that what you do as a lawyer?

Steve simply said: "I get banished from the boards every time I post any criticism of Judaism, Zionism, or Israel. I once posted direct quotes from the Gospel of John and found the post deleted and myself kicked off for posting "anti-Semitism".

The word "conspiracy" is one of the most-used Pavlov-dog words that people are programmed to sneer at and discount, rather than looking logically at the facts of the issue. Just trot out the word "conspiracy", smear your opponent with it, and then you can walk away smugly thinking you've proved something.

Which you have. You've proved that you can't think honestly and clearly on the subject.
 
Just so you know, Judaism isn't a race.
 
how did it all come down to this ?
 
Just so you know, Judaism isn't a race.

Just so you know, Zionism is about race.
 
No. Because Jews and Palestinians are pretty much members of the same race, by any definition.
 
By any definition? Get real, Eric. Zionist Jews don't see it that way. "The promised land" is not for Palestinians. It's for Zionist Jews.
 
No, eric, Jews and Palestinians are not members of the same race, by any definition. Go to Israel and then come back and tell us that Jews and Palestinians are the same race. Israelis look like the Europeans they are. Pals look like the Middle East Arabs they are. And like European societies everywhere, darker skinned peoples are somehow found in the lower economic stratas and that's just what you see in Israel. The Israeli Jewish neighborhoods and homes are well kept in their separated areas away from Israeli Arabs living in their slums and decaying homes. A very real apartheid situation.

Modern Jews are mostly descended from Central Europeans where the Kazars in Ubekistan or one of those places were given a choice of either becoming Muslims or Christians or face genocidal attack so they chose to become Jews instead converting en masse to the Jewish religion. Ashenazi Jews, the majority of Jews, all stem from these central European converts. If you listen carefully to Jewish folk music you can tell its clearly related to surrounding Greek, Slovic, Balkans cultures and different from Middle Eastern folk music. I have Jewish genes. Do I look Arabic to you? No, because my Gentile genes dominate my biological ancestry.

And when you say "biblical heritage" what you are really saying is "according to Jewish mythologies", all the major ones of which have proven to be as phony as most tribal myths of origin. The only difference with Jewish myths is that Christians took hold of them and set Western Civilization on this course identification with ancient Judaism that has now culminated with the imposition by force of arms of Jewish myths on Palestinian peoples in order that Jews could steal Palestine away from its indigenous peoples.

As for thinking that a Jewish conspiracy exists to kick Steve Lewis off all talkboards, no, I don't believe Jews have that much influence. But they certainly do have way more than their fair share of the pie when it comes to political influence on our media outlets.

I've become some sort of hero to our local Rio Dell Muslims, Jack and Rose who run E&J's Liquor Store (Muslims selling liquor here--a story there). One of their employees read my latest E.R. column out loud to all the customers in the store at the time. Rose tells me "Unbelievable. They actually printed your article. Only in America..." she says with a big smile because to them, Jewish control of American government and media is a given situation. And for my efforts, I get the biggest chicken breast they have plus two extra jo-jos for my regular weekly lunch meal I buy there.
 
"Jews and Palistinians are pretty much members of the same race"

Eric you confirmed it, you are turely stupid !
 
I should say my Gentile European genes dominate my ancestry. Arabs are Gentiles too because long ago the Israelite tribal priests and scribes decided their tribal god, Yahweh, loved Jews more than any other people in the world. Israelite priests and scribes created a divided humanity where the larger portion are called Goyim which originally meant "cattle" and not the phony cover-up meaning of "nations" (ever hear of a Goy meaning a single nation?). From the beginning Judaism is based on racial segregation and the Mitzvot laws every Jew is supposed to obey call for severe punishment, banishment from the community) for inter-marriage with Gentiles.

Meanwhile Judaism throws a sop to Gentiles with their second-class Jew for Gentile converts plus the racial tolerance window dressing myths where a few Gentiles became heros of the Jewish saga. But up until 1950 if you were a Gentile and wanted to marry a Jew chances were high the family would disown you and certainly the Jewish rabbinical community would as well. But now the Jewish religion is dying so intermarriages and the watering down of Jewish genes continues on as God and Nature foil the Chosen Ones racial purity agenda.
 
Boy, I'm writing too fast..The above should read "if you were Jewish and wanted to marry a Gentile chances were high the family would disown you. Look of the real meaning of the word "shitska" or whatever it is that refers to the Gentile girl who wants to marry the good Jewish boy. The word means "whore".
 
Steven - according to this site, the Sephardim account for about 60 percent of the Israeli population.

http://www.orthohelp.com/geneal/popul.HTM

According to Wikipedia, about 20 percent of the Israeli population is non-Jewish, mostly Arabic. That leaves the remaining 20 percent divided between Ashkenazim, Yemenite, Eithiopian, and other Asian Jews.

And if there was a "Jewish influence" on government, it would be much more liberal, considering that Jews are about 80 percent self-identified liberal.
 
Am I an "anti-Semite"? No, but I am no fan of Judaism. There's no real humanity in it because if there were there would be no division of humanity made in the image of God into two separate racial groups instead of One that mirrors the Creator.
 
Eric, that statistic is fairly unbelievable. The majority of Jews in the world are of Ashkenazi ancestry and the majority of Israeli citizens come from European and American immigration. Again, I've been there on the ground and seen for myself that most Israelis look just like you and I and not like darker skinned Arabs or even Spanish people for that matter, Spain being the main country that held the largest population of Sephardic Jews. I would have to see second, third opinions about most Israelis being Sephardic. In any event, the majority of Israelis do not look like the majority of Palestinians. There's a racial divide and it shows in how Israelis treat their darker skinned neighbors in the Middle East.
 
"And if there was a "Jewish influence" on government, it would be much more liberal, considering that Jews are about 80 percent self-identified liberal."

Eric, Jewish liberalism is also dying or haven't you noticed the neo-con phenomena melding of Jewish nationalism and American corporate capitalism?

You need to read more Protocols of the Elders, my boy, to keep up..
 
Give it up Steve, you're coming off like a real whacko.
 
I thought someone would sit up and bark when I slipped in that remark in jest..

No humor in blogsport it seems. Ok, let's keep it grim and combative. That's always way more fun..
 
Steve - please don't tell me you're a fan of David Ickes. We've got enough of them around here.

Also, my understanding is that the Sephardim have been the majority ethnic bloc in Israel for several decades now as all of the middle-eastern Jews were forced to come to Israel. Israel by the way, guarantees its Arab citizens full rights, something not afforded Jews in any of the Arab countries.

In any case, the reason I remember this is that the Sephardim despite being the majority have been shoved to the perimeter of the country, and thush been the targets of Hezbollah, Syrian, and Palestinian rockets - resulting in the Sephardic bloc being more hawkish than Labor, but more class conscious than Likud. They formed their own party which is or was a major party for awhile. One of the problems with Peace Now was that it was always dominated by white Jews, which were the majority but held the power. Gradually, the peace movement has made its way into the Sephardic community, including a relatively famous refusnik group call Friends of the Yeshgevul (not sure I'm spelling that right). But I'm quite certain from multiple sources I've read over the years that the majority of Israelis are in fact dark skinned, as many Palestinians are in fact light skinned - one of the reasons for the "successes" of suicide bombers in Israeli teenage nightclubs and malls.

In fact, if you go back to my post linking to the Tel Aviv peace demonstration in July, you'll find that dark skinned marchers were highly represented, perhaps even the majority, a new twist in Israeli politics.

Re Jewish liberalism, the neo-con phenomenon in the Jewish community is powerful, but it has to do more with the power of those involved rather than raw numbers. The Wolfowitz's don't speak for the Jewish community in any respect, not even in NY City which became slightly more hawkish following 911. The voting patterns remain the same - I believe Kerry got between 70 and 80 percent of the vote.
 
Eric, you're starting to appear more 'stevish'
 
Uh, what does that mean?
 
I don't know who David Ickes is. I've searched Google for statistics on Sephardic vs. Ashkenazi proportion in the Israeli population. I can't find anything that backs up my assumption that Ashkenazi's constitute the majority while I did find two references confirming your statement that Sephardics are the majority. I was unaware that Sephardic Jews were in the Balkan countries as well as Spain and the Middle Eastern countries.

What I can tell though is that when you're in Israel, the Israelis you see look European and not Arabic, there is a color bar between the lighter skinned Israelis and the darker skinned Palestinian Arabs. Here is why the Israelis look European in the main:

Main article: Demographics of Israel.

Among Jews, 63% were born in Israel, 27% are immigrants from Europe and the Americas, and 10% are immigrants from Asia and Africa (including the Arab countries).http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton55/st02_21x.pdf

Most Jews in Israel are from European countries.

"Israel by the way, guarantees its Arab citizens full rights, something not afforded Jews in any of the Arab countries."

Eric, this is total bullshit. There are Palestinians living in Humboldt and you really need to talk to them because without getting the Palestinian Arab p.o.v. on Israel you are being suckered by Zionist propaganda.

This taken from the Human Rights website:

"Nearly one in four of Israel's 1.6 million schoolchildren are educated in a public school system wholly separate from the majority. The children in this parallel school system are Israeli citizens of Palestinian Arab origin. Their schools are a world apart in quality from the public schools serving Israel's majority Jewish population. Often overcrowded and understaffed, poorly built, badly maintained, or simply unavailable, schools for Palestinian Arab children offer fewer facilities and educational opportunities than are offered other Israeli children. This report is about Israel's discrimination against its Palestinian Arab children in guaranteeing the right to education.

The Israeli government operates two separate school systems, one for Jewish children and one for Palestinian Arab children. Discrimination against Palestinian Arab children colors every aspect of the two systems. Education Ministry authorities have acknowledged that the ministry spends less per student in the Arab system than in the Jewish school system. The majority's schools also receive additional state and state-sponsored private funding for school construction and special programs through other government agencies. The gap is enormous--on every criterion measured by Israeli authorities.
The disparities between the two systems examined in this report are identified in part through a review of official statistics. These findings are tested and complemented by the findings of Human Rights Watch's on-site visits to twenty-six schools in the two systems and our interviews with students, parents, teachers, administrators, and national education authorities."
 
More evidence of Israeli discrimination against its Arab citizens.

Budget for cancer mapping doesn't extend to Arab sector By Eli Ashkenazi


Four years ago, in June 2001, the Health Ministry published a map of the geographical distribution of malignant diseases in Israel during the years 1984-1999. The detailed report presents more than 68 pages of data about malignant diseases in communities with more than 10,000 residents. However, except for Rahat, the report did not include a single Arab community.

For some months now, environmental and social justice groups have been trying to find out why. No answer came until last October when the head of the Health Ministry's cancer registration unit, Dr. Micha Barhana, wrote: "Unfortunately, at this time we are unable to process and publish a mapping of disease in the Arab sector, because of budgetary problems, which prevent contact with the residential registries, and because patients' addresses have not been updated over the past years."

Dr. Barhana's reply was met with outrage. "It is inconceivable," says Leithi Ghanem of the Al-Rasd Organization for Environmental Quality, "We identify a worrisome upward trend in malignant diseases in the Arab sector. We want to get to the bottom of the causes and demand that a geographical mapping be published, identical to the previous one, but now with a focus on Arab communities. This publication will shed light on the medical situation of Israel's Arab population and will help focus attention and treatment to prevent further deterioration."

Ghanem presents data collected by the Israel Center for Disease Control, which shows that in the past three decades the rate of malignant diseases in the Arab population has risen by 97.8 percent among men, and 123 percent among women, as opposed to a rise of 39.8 percent for men and 24.4 percent for women among the Jewish population.

"In light of these figures," he says "adequate resources must be allocated to map malignant disease in the Arab sector, and to set a timetable for publishing the results."

Gil Yaakov, of the Coalition for Public Health, which unites 20 environmental groups in the area of Haifa and the north, says he is under the impression that the registrar wants to prepare a report about the Arab communities, but has not been provided with a budget. Yaakov explains that a mapping would allow them to correlate between industrial or transportation hazards and disease.

"When an area with high rates of disease is identified - and the north has many diseased areas associated with environmental pollution - policies can be changed," Yaakov says. "Only when a correlation can be shown is it possible to prevent installation of new hazards, or demand tighter standards. In most cases, the polluters argue that no connection between pollution and disease can be proved. Geographical mapping can be very helpful in demonstrating the connection. Mayors will only take action when presented with hard data."

The Coalition for Public Health says that in the absence of mapping it is hard to raise awareness, or organize residents to fight for their rights. "It is known that communities near the Haifa and Acre bay suffer from high rates of disease. We want to know what is happening in Shfaram, Tamra or Makr-Jadida. Currently it is easy to establish projects that create pollution in these communities. Mapping disease will prevent further marginalization of these communities."

Director of the Center Against Racism, Bakr Awawda, recently approached Health Minister Dan Naveh, demanding that Arab communities be mapped. "Only mapping Jewish communities violates constitutional rights, anchored in the Basic Law on Human Dignity and Freedom," says the letter, which was sent more than two months ago and is still awaiting a reply.

"This is a sensitive issue involving responsibility for human life," Awawda says. "I live in Kafr Kana. We sense that there are many more cancer patients over the past years. Perhaps there is a connection with emissions from the nearby industrial zone, perhaps it is the water sources. Who knows? A mapping could begin to point to answers to these disturbing questions. Why is Upper Nazareth in the report, but neighboring Kafr Kana and Nazareth are not?"

The Health Ministry said in response that the study only included large cities for comparative reasons, to seek differences in rates of disease. "According to the registry's data, disease in the Arab sector is much lower than in the Jewish population. The Health Ministry considers statistical mapping of cancer in the Arab sector as very important. The ministry is working with the appropriate bodies to begin a mapping of cancerous diseases in the Arab sector."

However, the ministry's claims to the contrary, perusal of the report reveals, that it does not include only the large cities. It actually lists 62 communities of more than 10,000 residents. Some, like Kiryat Shmona or Upper Nazareth are smaller than Arab towns that are not included, such as Umm al-Fahm or Nazareth.

"The report has produced two different groups," says attorney Khaider Ala from the Center Against Racism. "One, an overprivileged group, whose lives are dear to the state and to the Health Ministry; a second, whose lives are of no importance to the state. The state must implement an economic and social policy that will ensure the health of all its citizens."

Awawda and Khaider plan to petition the High Court and ask it to instruct the Health Ministry fo map malignant diseases in Arab communities.
 
Don't have time to read all that right now, let alone respond with great subsance. However, I'm told that how "white" Israel appears depends on where you are. Again, check out those Tel Aviv demo shots. I'll try to dig up the post.

Secondly, I'm not saying that the treatment of Arabs in Israel is ideal. But they do have full rights under the law. And they're certainly treated better than Jews are treated in Arab countries. In fact, some would argue that Arabs are treated better in Israel than in Arab countries.

David Icke's site:

http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/

We've got some people that believe his stuff, and admit that on the radio. I was joking when I asked you. Hopefully, you don't believe that Kris Kristopherson is secretly a ... lizard.
 
No Kris is secretly Jim Wilbur who lives in Redway.

Eric, I hope you do some better homework before you go spouting off about conditions of Pals in Israel. It seems you are not in the Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch information loop about the abuses of human rights going on in Israel re Palestinians. Do you know about Vanunu for example, the Israeli nuclear armaments development whistle blower?

Spreading the Zionist bias re Israel and its relationships internally with Israeli Arabs and externally with Palestinians and Middle East Arabs only contributes to the support Israelis count on from America in order to continue their Zionist goals of gobbling up as much of Palestine as they can get away with.
 
how did this tread go soooooo far of the mark ? stevie you're getting kind of scary !
 
But aren't we talking about homesteading in SoHum? Isn't the West Bank next door to us and Pals homesteading their hills like we do?
 
Hey Stevie Wonder, you're somewhere btwn Pluto and Uranus!
 
Actually, in my Aquarian planetoid incarnation that looks pretty much like a cross between Pluto and Bluto, I revolve around the planet Uranus as one of its moons--Ariel. You'll be hearing more about this when the Sign I'm waiting for arrives via coded messages from my computer screensaver.
 
Maybe you'll get the sign when your neighbor's dog craps on your lawn.

Good job in getting the focus of the thread off of the marijuana criminals.
 
Steve - I'm also aware of what Amnesty International and other human rights groups has to say about Israel's neighbors, including the Palestinian Authority. I certainly don't defend Israel's abuses, but there does seem to be a double standard about it. Israel is at least a quasi-democracy much like ours, unlike all 22 Arab states. Iran isn't an Arab country, but it was something of a democracy before the Eisenhauer administration overthrew it and replaced it with a dictatorship.

The point is, there are plenty of Arabs who would rather live in Israel as second class citizens than their home countries. There are reasons for this, and not all of them are economic.
 
No, not all of them are economic, just 90% of them. When your own people's social infrastructure is repeatedly destroyed with strafing bombers from the air and bulldozers of war on the ground, when your leadership if they resist Israeli aggression are instantly labeled "terrorists" and open targets for killing, when the most powerful nation in the world is militarily, economically and politically backing your enemy's genocidal plans for your people's extermination, it's kinda hard to think where you're going to find work when no factories, no shops, no nothing to support yourself exists due to constant, non-stop war.

Eric, I can only repeat myself that you need to talk directly with Palestinians about your Israeli prejudices against them. When you do talk with them you will find out that Palestinians are themselves an ethnic group not always well liked by most Arabs living in other Arab states? Why is that? Because Pals have shown themselves to be the most aggressive at educating themselves and pulling themselves out of poverty whenever and wherever they are given half a chance to do so.

The Israeli pressure cooker on Pals is absolutely enormous because Pals are incredibly strong people and they will eventually take back their nation from Israeli control. It's only a matter of time before everyone in the West realizes the inevitable fate of Israel. The only possible way Israel can continue into the future is through constant war because even democracy is against Israel. Can't maintain a Jewish majority and Jewish control as a democratic state when Pals as Israeli Arabs are out-populating you and that's what they are doing.

Eric, you are just going to have to learn that Israel is a tumor in the Arab Middle East that has to be excized before there will be permanent peace in the Holy Land coveted by Zionist Jews. It's racist state and has no business being supported by America.
 
Now, before you and everyone jumps to the conclusion I want to see the demise of Israeli Jews, nothing could be farther from my thoughts. They are there. They have been there long enough and gone through hell enough to warrant their citizenship in the Holy Land nation by whatever name it will eventually be called. Palestine or even the Republic of Canaan.

("Canaan" actually is the alternative name of choice for Israel or Palestine by Pals. I was surprised to find this so when I began sharing my Canaan Peace Plan on the Palestinian Christian internet groups I belonged to)

Israelis Jews will have to go through the exact same process as white South Afrikaaners did when the black population regained political control of their homeland. And like South Africa, there will be no retaliatory violence if obuntu is observed, a concept now foreign to Judaism because it has no religious instructions for forgiveness of Gentiles or understanding all humanity is one.
 
you're whacking out again Stevie Wonder. So wonder the NCJ won't print your stuff ....... you're goofy.
 
Hey, anon 3:03, if you can't think past crummy trite over-used put-downs, why should I or anyone take you seriously? Next time, try writing something that shows you're capable of more than thinking up brainless sound-bite slander.
 
One of the big problems with these blog sites is that instead of using them to express our reasoned opinions they become instead platforms for mud-slingers who add nothing to the debate but thoughless twaddle.
 
Steve, much of what you say is on point, accurate, and relevant but. When you go off on your anti Isreal pro Islamic stuff you do sound ....... goofy !
 
Steve - that's both the strength and the weakness of the medium. It democratizes input. But the input comes from people. And people are complicated creatures with all sorts of contradictions.
 
Oh nonsense, people are as predictable as sheep to us wolves for Christ in cheap clothing. "The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."--J.C., John 10:10

anon 5:15..Think of Israel and consider who I believe is playing the part of the thief and what my duty to humanity is if I call myself Christian. I think the only reason you think my views on Israel are "goofy" is that I have been there, seen the apartheid in action, been to the West Bank, been in the streets with Palestinians, have Palestinian friends, have an Israeli peace activist friend, have Muslim friends, while you I'm guessing have not because if you have had this sort of direct experience with the "other side" of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict you'd be in agreement with me and find your own views not goofy but sadly mistaken. Passing on misinformation about the reality of Israeli policy only contributes to the continuation of violence by a rogue state out of control, at war with its neighbors, and armed with nuclear weaponry and a paranoid religious cult mentality.
 
Personally, I don't know that sheep are all that predictable either.
 
That's a sheep shot, eric. Some of my best friends..
 
Boy did this get off the point. I think it was intentional to get the story awday from all the negative things the SoHUM dope growers have done to our county.

The dope growers damage the ecology. They have for years and will continue to do so. The SoHum dope growers are kind of a loosly knit organized crime family. Marijuana growers are the worst thing that has ever happened to Humboldt County. Worst that all the floods and fires. But Kirk's buddies continue to get rich, take vacations in Costa Rica, Belieze, Europe, and other places that most WORKING Humboldt residents can't afford.

I just wanted to get this one back to the "ecogogical" crap/defense of the dope growers. Dope growers are just criminals that want to make the easy money, they don't give a shit about anything but their money. Plain and simple.
 
Okay. Well, that's one viewpoint. I would suggest that if you want to persuade, you use facts to support your arguments rather than blanket conclusions about people whom you know nothing about.
 
I'm someone who's been there, done that, re growing pot and I say, where's my brand new SUV, my sky trips, my vacations to Bali, my house in Hawaii?

Geez, who wouldn't be envious of people working half? a quarter? of the time the great majority of city and townie people have to put into working to maintain themselves at a much lower standard of living. But that's crime for you.

The good mafiosos give to the neighborhood charities and the good homesteaders give to EPIC and Local Solutions. But it's still criminals living the high life off the work of others.
 
Three you go again with the FACTS BS Eric.

You say whatever, remember something you read in a local paper from the 70's and put it out as FACT.

Anything contrary to your view you rant on FACTS. Well Eric my boy why don't YOU give us some FACTS.

And Eric I know plenty about people from SoHum. You would be pretty uncomfortable if you knew what I know.

And to Stevie Wonder ...... I guess you were a shitty dope grower if you ended up the night desk clerk at the Benbow Inn ! There are plenty of 20 something millionaires in Redway, Shelter Cove, Garberville, Alderpoint, Harris ....... and anyone who lives in the area knows it. Remember when Eric posted that sometimes when a client leaves his office his secretaries comment that that person is a BIG grower. People know, and you know if you live or spend time in that area. But you Eric, by your own admission, make money from the sohum dope industry ! I guess that just makes you a facilitator ? Or a leech ?
 
Updating my bookmarks... see you're still here. Looks different than I remembered. I've updated my stuff too - electric fireplace
 
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