Thursday, April 26, 2007

 

Injunction denied

Bob has all the details and responses.

Now what?

Addendum: Tom Dimmick has filed a summary adjudication motion. This morning's media coverage for your convenience:

Times Standard

Eureka Reporter

Second Addendum: Apparently the summary judgment code section link doesn't work on it's own. I've linked to the Cal government search page. Plug in "summary judgment" in the Code of Civil Procedure section and select section 437(c).

Correction: If I'd read the ER article I would have known that it was Tom Dimmick who filed the summary adjudication motion. I apologize for the error.

Third Addendum: A Times-Standard article on the upcoming planning commission meeting, containing a typo some may find mildly amusing. I wonder if I'll get another missive from attorneys for linking to the article.

Comments:
fast and pray.
 
Now the Mateel needs help to fight the fight. Here is a thought from another thread

The Mateel obligation isn't to pad the pockets of anyone who is out to make a buck on the back of the community. Its job is to keep it from happening. All the bickering and name calling isn't doing anything to help the situation. At some point the community center's resources are going to be depleted. Instead of yelling about it maybe it is time this community stood up and showed as much courage as the board has in fighting what the whole community knows has been happening. You could fund the entire legal battle and operations if every person who ever got a "free" band into Reggae stepped forward and paid for it now. Where are your scruples? Where is the backbone of democracy we hear and preach about every day over KMUD about social values and the evils of corporate America chasing the almighty buck. What is more important to you now... making that buck and having your party or your principles and your own self-interest. This decision will set the path for the next ten years in this community. It is the hour to take a position based on something other than your own fun and money.
 
This is from another source but I can't find it to link.

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some
2,000 years earlier:


"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."


"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."


"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."


"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years."
 
hah....the mateel is F.U.C.K.E.D.
 
Gotta love you FUCKBAG lawyers.
 
hah....the mateel is F.U.C.K.E.D.

Yes, it is.
 
The cause of the mateel is based on a golden heart of community energy manifested over the passing of 80 seasons.

Take heart, Reggae on the river is intangible and precious, it cannot be bought or even stolen!

Perhaps Reggae may Rise. What is then created- you may say to yourself - is the same, it is 'reggae'. But at its heart, it will never be the same. For the fraudulent way by which you have obtained it has cheapened, dirtied and whored (is that a verb?) the event.

Just wait. It ain't over til it's over. Jah know. Jah know.
 
Geeze. Play Hardball. Sue the county. Let all of the other non profits in the community fall into financial ruin... as long as the Mateel can massage its own ego, by refusing to compromise... and perhaps, killing reggae on the river, or reggae rising, forever, in the process.

Who cares about the rest of the community, as long as Mateel's ego is intact?

Hmmmm... maybe Tom Dimmick and People Productions care, but since MCC's media spin has turned TD and PP into scary villians, the point is moot. What scares you most, southern humboldt?
 
Y'Know what's funny, the only place I run into PEople Production supporters is here on the blogosphere.
 
Also, I know many people who will be boycotting the PP's Rising event, if that is the one that prevails. I think the community outta get real damn riled up about this and boycott Reggae Rising altogether.
 
Elena and Heather,

You worked many years at Reggae. You know how much work it takes. Please, educate your fellow board members. Please, teach them how to bend, instead of breaking.

We are running out of time!
 
I have to agree with Anon 08:59:00 PM. I would rather we had no Reggae at all than stand by and let this Reggae Rising power play be successful.

First the Kiwanas.
Now the Mateel.

What's next? The hospital? The schools? Is this community incapable of holding onto any assets built by the contributions of our common sweat equity?

It's the same old story.

If you ever thought there was something special, something magical about this place and this community, now would be a good time to step forward make it so.
 
I've never been more sickened in my life! A Reggae Rising event will go down in history as the SELL OUT concert, and not in a good way!

YOU FUCKS ARE A BUNCH OF SELLOUTS
 
quoting anon 9:35pm:
Anonymous said...

Also, I know many people who will be boycotting the PP's Rising event, if that is the one that prevails. I think the community outta get real damn riled up about this and boycott Reggae Rising altogether."

Yes, that is what Mateel is hoping for. It would fall right into their plan to "fight to the finish" to force Tom Dimmick to allow MCC to use his land, in spite of the fact they breached the contract, by hiring Boots.

And, failing that, who the heck cares if there is NO event this August. Mateel is ready to do without an event... and the other local NPO's be damned.

I hope those "other" NPO's come together as a group, and lobby the Mateel to get mellow, and find a compromise.

I also hope that the community at large will talk the Mateel out of their plans to sue the county. That's about the worst PR plan I have ever heard of. Bad idea, MCC!

Let's all come together, and save the Mateel... from itself... and save the community, from the Mateel!
 
Scumbag Lawyers: 1

Reggae Festival: 0
 
Great idea. It worked so well (not) the other two or three times this was done.
 
Are these the same NPO's likely to be replaced by commercial food booths in the future?
 
I don't get it - All the Judge said was that money would fully compensate the Mateel if Reggae Rising is proven to violate their trade mark.. Same event, same time, same place.. hmmm I wonder how a jury would decide.

And keep in mind Reggae Rising has yet to obtain a permit How will the planning commission react?
 
If RR gets a permit, it will be a Nazi permit. Like it or not, Reggae of the past is dead no matter who wins. No Drugs? No Way! Attendance will drop dramatically.

I have seen this before. Absolutely nobody wins except those fuckhead lawyers.
 
Frodo has failed.

Carol & PB have the ring!


Originally published as a backstage urinal sticker at the 20th RotR.

How prophetic!
 
As before, this legal victory does not mean the courts think one side is right and the other wrong, on the ultimate issue. It simply means that if wrongs are being done they can be liquidated, ie paid for in money, if proven.

i predicted this would happen (I hope).
 
I hope the "other non-profits" realize that if they allow the Mateel to be treated in this way their own position is far from secure:

First they took out the outspoken.
And I didn't speak up because I'm a thoughtful reasonable person.

Then they took out the thoughtful critics.
And I didn't speak up because I wanted to support the community benefit.

Then they took out the Mateel.
And I didn't speak up because I wanted to protect my perks and the income for my neighborhood project.

When they took out my neighborhood project, there was no one left in any position of control who would speak for my little non-profit.
 
Ed - I became pretty certain the injunction would be denied once Bob posted the gist of the Mateel complaint on his blog. If and when this nightmare ends, I'll explain why.

I guess now the discovery starts. A lot of people may be receiving deposition subpoenas as the lawsuit cranks into third gear.
 
Wait. You mean the lawyers posting their "opinions" here have never read the whole complaint?
 
Now what?

Waddya mean, Now what? Now Tom Dimmick can do what he wants on his property until the case is heard. This is the United States of America, and the only time the word "Lord" is used outside of a place of worship, it's combined with the word "Land."

The MCC can sue anybody they want, but they ain't gonna get an injunction, which means they can't stop shit. As for the Planning commision, unless I'm missing something, I have no idea why they would, or for that matter, even COULD care about this whole bag of puss.

It seems to me that the best the MCC can do is to guarantee that there is no ?OTR 2007, which screws everybody. And while it seems that is exactly what they are going to try to do, I'm operating under the assumption that someone will get a grip.

I never gave a shit who won this, it's always been nothing more than a cat fight pitting the stupid against the greedy - that and a reminder to those of us who grew up there and got the fuck out at the first available opportunity, why we did it.

Still, I learned to swim and landed my first steelhead in my backyard in Redway and there is something very sacred about that water that keeps me coming back to ?OTR.

But Jesus H. fucking Christ, listening to some of the lame ass, mean-spirited borderline brain-damaged fucking bullshit I've seen posted on this blog, I almost hope they DO croak the whole fucking thing, just to teach all of you a lesson.

That or throw "Burn Redway To The Ground" featuring a weekend of speed metal bands and gangsta rap acts on the last week of July out on Redway Beach. Hire the guys they used to get to do security, you know, the ones from Redcrest? They were a lot of fun. Granted, when they weren't face down in a baking sheet of white powder, they were too busy shaking down the crowd to secure much of anything.

And, Eric V. Kirk, I DO understand your attachment for the first amendment and your contempt for Schenk vs US and I'd do it the same way myself, but you must admit, what your blog's policy has ultimately demonstrated is that Aaron Spelling was right.

That and people can be gutless little weasels when they don't have to sign their name.
 
"That and people can be gutless little weasels when they don't have to sign their name."

Uhhhhhh, ok, "hunter".

Yes, that's a very revealing name; we all know exactly who YOU are know...
 
THE SMART MONEY IS WITH WHAT'S NOT BEING SAID ON THIS BLOG!
 
Okay. I don't know what that means exactly, but I'll take your word for it.
 
Carol will win. She always does. It's a phenomenon. She has the power of possession and persuasion behind her. Continuing this fight is like driving, full speed, into a brick wall. It's time for The MCC to take the high road. They might be right, but it serves NO-ONE'S best interest to continue this fight. Take the money and run! Reggae Rising will take place on stolen land. I, for one, will not be there.
 
if she's that powerful now is not the time to give in- don't reward bullies...
(but if PP can steal Reggae fair and square- well, then its just business...is PP playing a big bluff?)
 
"Uhhhhhh, ok, "hunter"."

Uhhhhhh... If you look at my post you'll see that my posted name has a hyperlink to my website.
 
The concern is over the Dimmick property yet no one seems concerned that how he is going to make the money to pay for that property if he goes ahead will be with the Mateel's property. Hypocrisy. This is your community's property that is being used.
 
Why the hatred? Why all the spew? It's only a concert after all. It seems to some a personal crusade. I for one am a long-time MCC supporter and a long-time coordinator. Until last November I didn't realize we were not one and the same. I still can't. See you at Coco's party--even if you've been saying you're staying away from THAT place. Hey, it's our MCC too. Love and Peace to all.
 
At least now we can start MOVING in a forward direction. We are no longer dead in the water. (river?) Now, responsible people, that want a Reggae festival, can build on some plans. ALL parties need to knock off of the "If we can't have it, no one will" attitude. There is FAR more at stake than which one of the warring parties will win.

The third party, the community has steadfastly supported this event. The non-profits have given up on their regular fund raisers to assist in making this event happen. Yes, I said assist. Reggae couldn’t happen without the non-profits. Nor could it happen with out the communities’ support.

The biggest player in this whole mess is the community . Yet, the community has the least to say about it.

I have seen glimmers of hope on all sides, we need to make that glimmer into a glow. It is totally obvious that the only thing that will save this event, from disaster and destruction, is for ALL parties to agree that All parties will have to work together. Please try to work together to make this event happen, and happen smoothly.
 
Nothing much seems to happen when I click on the summary adjudication link. A blank page saying WAIS Document Retrieval opens, and I'm thinking something should download, but nothing does. Any advice?
 
Hmmm. Let me look into that.

All I was linking to was a page containing Code of Civil Procedure 437(c).
 
So we are all okay and happy happy with wrong things being done as long as we get our money in the end? The rest of the nonprofits fear for their money yet don't think the Mateel should do the same. Isn't this a nice community to live in. No wonder the youth leave.
 
No wonder most of them have a "get it while you can" attitude. If you can make more money by growing deisel dope big, or you can make more moner screwing someone out of their fair share -- please explain. What is the difference? It's about getting MORE. That is a terrible legacy to leave our children with.
 
What's the option? Keep on fighting until every last resource is consumed? Or be smart enough to know when enough is enough. It's only rock 'n roll.
 
I like it here. I have friends here. I’m not leaving.

Unfortunately, (I’m forced to use that word way too much) we live in a society that knows how to protest, stop progress, make lawsuits, and complain. What chance do we have to get along when nobody knows how to see a side of things other than their own?

Where are the visionaries among us? The ones that know how to put things together? The people that know that not everything goes your way, but it can be okay. Progress is made by taking three steps forward and two steps back, but it is still progress.

Think about all the people around you who have loved this event. Think of all the friends we have... on not both, but all... sides of this mess. This fight has strained friendships that were previously unbreakable. The turmoil has caused people to make plans different than attending Reggae. The complexion of the event has changed forever, and it will never again be the same.

Where are all those people that used to say; “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem?” Wasn’t that you?
 
In other words:
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK!
 
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 
How is Reggae Rising going forward when it doesn't own the stuff to put the event on and they don't have a permit and no hopes of getting one. Are they going to use the Mateels equipment and their infrastructure. Please someone spin that one.
 
From the Mateel's USE permit for Reggae on the River

Within 120 days after the use permit expires or the Mateel Community Center Board decides the event will no longer be held at the site (whichever comes first), the property shall be restored to its original condition. This includes removing all permanent structures for the event, and grading to restore the original contours of the property. Upon request by the applicant and property owners, the time period for restoring the site may be extended or the requirements waived by the Planning Director based on evidence further renewal of the permit is being actively pursued, or evidence restoration of the site is not necessary to encourage primary uses in the AL Plan designation.
 
There may be no Reggae On The River this year but the Mateel still owns the name and the festival can be done next year after all this mess is settled.
 
At the individual's request, I just removed a post which contained contact information for an individual employed by Reggae Rising. If the post was intended as a press release by Reggae Rising, please e-mail it to me kirk at humboldt.net (trying to avoid the spambots) sans the personal information, and I'll post it to the main page.
 
Carol Bruno is still a disgusting example of a human I AGREE 1000000000,PERCENT///
 
Ernie,

It appears the visionaries you are hoping for have been driven out of this process.

I can believe that the Mateel would be willing to embrace a community-based vision from a trustworthy partner -- even if they had to sacrifice income.

But, after all that has happened, and all the spin, and all the posturing it's just too hard to believe in the spirit of Reggae Rising. It's just too hard to trust Tom and Carol. I looks like a power play, and I think it's about the money. That's not a vision. (Great name though.)

As for myself, I hold out precious little hope that the RR crowd will accept any vision, or any offer, but their own.

Sometimes even a visionary, one who knows how to make things happen, has to recognize what is not possible. You can't build a vision on false assumptions. So it goes...

We may, really, be better off without Reggae. Each summer Reggae consumes all the spare volunteer energy this community can muster for about six to eight weeks. Many other worthy projects are put on hold. Maybe we would all be better off if we spent that volunteer time working directly for the projects we support, or spending time with our kids, or grandkids, or going to the beach, or reading a book, hell maybe even blogging (politely) on the internet.

Is that a vision?
 
anon 5:49


Thank-you for a polite answer. It’s good of you to be kind.

It is possible that too many walls have been built, and too many things have been said that can never be unsaid... I am still hoping that isn't the case.
 
I feel it is the case, Ernie. Too many people in this community see what has happened as nothing more than a power grab. For these people to reverse their opinions it would take open hearted grand gestures on PP TD's part without motive. Judging from the smarmy actions of that group it's something I feel they're not capable of. It's not part of their reality. It would not make business sense.
 
This denial of an injunction is not a defeat for the MCC's position but rather a statement by the Court that the Mateel can be compensated by damages. When RR happens then the Mateel will be able to demonstrate the value of those damages. Maybe that will be enough to invest and fund a true "community" center.
What about the fact that the permit was issued to an entity that was considered a non-profit community center. It would seem to me that the RR people do not fit that mold and are for-profit etc.. I believe that RR should have to start the permit process all over and see where that action end up.
I like the post that pointed out the extreme drain on community and family energy that Reggae has always been. Has it been a positive thing for the youth of our community? The community was doing real fine before Reggae and certainly would be after is gone. After all, all things pass. Or is this big venue thing just the forces of urbanization having their way with So Hum?
 
Ernie said something about friendships dissolving over this issue. It's sad, but he's right. Suddenly, we find out who our TRUE friends are. True friends don't blow you off because of your opinions. I have many dear friends on both "sides" of this issue. We are still friends.

I have also found myself blacklisted by certain people, who I have always been kind to, shown respect to, and considered friends.

Suddenly I am "untouchable" because of my opinion. Doesn't matter that I've done them favors, bought umpteen raffle tickets from their kids, loaned them money, gi ven them a good reference for a job, etc. for the past 25 years.

No tolerance for me, I suddenly have cooties.

It makes me value my true friends all the more.

Tolerance. A nice concept. Let's tolerate each other. Let's compromise. Let's work together.

Ernie, your last comment was:

"
It is possible that too many walls have been built, and too many things have been said that can never be unsaid... I am still hoping that isn't the case"

I too hope that is not the case.

Let's all take a deep breath, accept each other, tolerate each other, and work together.

We've done it before. Why not try it again?

Peace Out.
 
I too have seen friendships of 25 years destroyed because of this situation. So sad. But Carol Bruno is not going to tolerate anyone or anything that will take away her gravy train. Reggae needs a break. Carol Bruno will go down in history as the woman who destroyed it. No matter the amount of "positive vibes" she puts out, her greed and love of power will always take over.
 
anon 9:42pm

You must not know Carol very well.

Carol has already gone down in history as the woman who created it.

She is the one who nurtured it, for two decades.

Carol is a self-less, community-minded person. Her husband John is the nicest person you could ever hope to meet.

Carol and John are quiet, unassuming members of this community.

Haters, please get over it. Please stop trying to smear John and Carol. They are too well-loved in this community for your hate-fest to succeed.

Stop it, already!

John and Carol have more class than any of you haters can ever hope to have. There. Nuff Said.
 
I heard Estelle say on thank Jah this morning that "kmud is the true community center".
 
estelle is PP all the way
 
now I guess the MCC sits back and awaits its cash settlement, the Judge will decide how much the show was worth and the MCC will get its nut. How much that is yet to be determined. as a previous blogger stated that it is dependant on the success of Reggae Rising. I suppose the MCC might hope RR is a huge success to ensure a larger settlement, but with their history I imagine they will be happier with a flop and a bummer of a settlement.
 
"The Mateel obligation isn't to pad the pockets of anyone who is out to make a buck on the back of the community. Its job is to keep it from happening."

Really the Mateel's obligetion is to maintain our community center, they are not superheroes fighting for truth and justice. perhaps if Tanya ran around in blue spandex stomping out all the diesel grows and competing production companies it would make sense to some, but the mere thought of Tanya in blue spandex is not such a good visual.
 
How about Garth in green spandex, with a superpowered mouse which he can use to teleport his mommy anywhere to type out his complaints.
 
Heather and Elena in matching spandex suits like the Wondertwins, that would be cool, WONDERTWIN POWERS ACTIVATE!

shape of a reggae coodinator
 
I was totally offended when Estelle said KMUD was the true community center. So will the CoCo benefit today be moved from the Mateel to the KMUD community center? And Carol is not the creator of ROTR. LOTS of people for the same Lots of years HELPED CREATE the event that is ROTR.

If the CUP, is owned by the Mateel, but "runs with the land", I assume that means that the event just can't be moved, like, oh let's say, to Benbow golfcourse. The CUP goes with the Dimmick land. If the Mateel decides not to do the event for a year,at the Dimmick land, is it then that the permit just goes un-used for a year? Tom Dimmick does not own the CUP, Carol Bruno does not own the CUP. What is the legal issue surrounding this? It seems like no matter what a judge decides on any type of injunction, the CUP is the bottom line. And the CUP belongs to the Mateel, right?

And for Carol Bruno to say it will be the same community event is pretty bogus. Will she now become P.P. Community Center? Will the next benefit for a sick community member or ant other event that happens at the Mateel COMMUNTIY CENTER be at her office? or her house? or Tom Dimmicks house? You Carol Bruno blinded by your love people had better wake up and see the writing on the wall of the future that you are ramming down the throats of this COMMUNITY because of your greed, egos, and your SUPPOSSED selflessness.

Signed--Kooky Irish 1
 
KIone please wake up and smell the future.
 
COURT DENIES PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION AGAINST
PEOPLE PRODUCTION and THE DIMMICK RANCH

REGGAE RISING MUSIC FESTIVAL MOVES FORWARD UNENCUMBERED

ZIGGY, STEPHEN, and DAMIAN MARLEY ADDED TO LINEUP



[Humboldt County, CA April 27, 2007] The honorable Judge Bruce Watson denied the Mateel Community Center’s request for a preliminary injunction against: People Productions, the Dimmick Ranch, and the Reggae Rising Music Festival. This highly-anticipated ruling clears the way for the Reggae Rising Music Festival to move forward unencumbered to bring you the best reggae festival of the summer.



The festival will benefit the Southern Humboldt community and carry on the 23 year tradition of being one of the largest fundraisers for its non-profits. Reggae Rising will take place on August 3rd, 4th and 5th at the Dimmick Ranch and French’s Camp in Piercy, California and will feature three days of camping and world renowned reggae music, situated along the picturesque Eel River.



This year festival is dedicated to the “MUSIC” and the lineup promises to be unparalleled. We're proud to announce that ZIGGY MARLEY, STEPHEN MARLEY, and DAMIAN MARLEY have just been added. Each Marley brother will be performing their own set, backed by their own band. This is a first in the history of the Marley brothers!!! In a recent interview, with the Eureka-Times Standard, Stephen Marley was asked: “T-S: As a performer, is that just another show, or is there a special vibe to that place?” Stephen: “No, it's not just another show. As you say, it's not really so much the name as the atmosphere, the people and the vibe. That's why it's not just another show, why it's special. It's just free. The vibe always free spirited, ya know? Down by the river, visit the people and pitch their tents. That type of free lifestyle, that, you know what I mean? When you hear my father say (singing), 'why can't we roam this open country,' it always remind me of that type of vibe, ya know, just being. You pitch your tent, the river is there, ya know, and the greenery, and the scenery. It get no better than that. So, it's not just another concert, but at the same time, it's not the name of it, really, but the vibe of it.”



Other artists confirmed are: STEEL PULSE, ABYSSINIANS, ANTHONY B, COLLIE BUDDZ, FANTAN MOJAH, FREDDIE MCGREGOR, HEAVYWEIGHT DUB CHAMPION, ISHI DUBE, MORGAN HERITAGE, QUEEN OMEGA, RICHIE SPICE, RICHIE STEPHENS, SLY & ROBBIE AND THE TAXI GANG with HORACE ANDY, TANYA STEPHENS, and WISDOM. Please check our website frequently as there are more acts TBA.



People Productions and its staff of coordinators have a two decades plus track record for hosting exceptional music festivals and will produce the event with the same expertise that has given them one of the best reputations in the industry.



3 DAY FESTIVAL TICKET
$175


Includes General Admission Three (3) Day Festival Ticket to this years Reggae Rising Music Festival.



PRE-SALE: DIMMICK RANCH CAMPING
$100


Must arrive Thursday, August 2nd - $100 for 4-day camping pass. Entry into this camping area begins at 8:00am on Thursday, August 3rd until 10:00pm. much. No entry permitted after 10:00pm so our crews can get some rest. Enjoy camping on two premier areas directly adjacent to our beautiful concert bowl. Thursday night arrival is necessary for this campground. Fewer number of spaces available this year, so purchase early. Parking spaces assigned by staff upon arrival. All persons in your vehicle must have a ticket. Identification will be mailed to you along with your ticket. Accommodates one (1) vehicle with a maximum of four people. Please No RV's or buses allowed in Dimmick Camping.



PRE-SALE: COOKS VALLEY CAMPING & RV OPTIONS
$145-$325


The Cook's Valley Camping area is adjacent to Dimmick Ranch. You must have tickets to the Reggae Rising festival for your Cook's Valley Camping purchase to be valid. You must have a festival ticket to enter the camping area. This beautiful camping area features spaces under the redwood trees and is perfect for families and those who wish a quieter environment.



PRE-SALE: GROUP CAMPING AT FRENCH'S CAMP
$200


Thursday or Friday Entry: $200 for 4-day camping pass. Entry into this camping area can be either Thursday, August 2nd at 8:00am or Friday, August 3rd at 6:00am. Camp with your friends in a pre-reserved space at the French's Camp Concert Bowl. Each space accommodates two (2) vehicles and a minimum of six (6) and a maximum eight (8) people. More than one campsite can be "grouped" together, if purchased at the same time. All group camping vehicles must arrive no later than 7:00pm, Friday August 3rd. No Buses or RV's allowed in Group Camping.
 
This year festival is dedicated to the “MONEY"
 
I was offended by the KMUD news spin on the ROR controversy last night. All that gloating about talking to the Marleys, and no mention that Boots had already hired one of the the Marley brothers. I would honestly like to think that CB is a tireless selfless individual, but when she hides the assets of the community, isnt financially responsible and basically shunned many of us when Reggae greed, trips to Jamaica and so on set in, I have my doubts. And for her to say on the KMUD news last night that her RR event will be in the same spirit of community as ever and yet it will be without its original intention, to raise money for the MCC is just downright bogus. It made me sick to hear her on TD talking as if they were only in it for the community and yet they are trying to steal this event from the community center. Good grief people. The MCC is and always will be the center of our community, we built it as such, and although Carol and crew helped, so did hundreds if not thousands of us in this community. I personally will boycott RR if it happens. It's a sham and a shame. I might cynically think that you offer Reggae artists enough free ganja they'd love the vibe anywhere, but I refrain, thats over the top, or is it from what I hear from backstage Reggae-ites???
It's like green-washing, making out it is one thing when it's obviously not. It's not about respect and unity, it's about corporate greed and takeover. Same old story, different players. And perhaps even more sickening when it's couched in all this peace and love vibe. Sickening. Oh yes, the non profits will make their money, but whats the bottom line on how much CB and TD will make? We will never know. We never have. It's bit like Starbucks, they throw out a few crumbs to the workers and walk away with the fat profits.
 
Carol is sucking the life out of the community. In her little mind it is about her. She didn't give a good god damn if the community center didn't get a dime. She got her $180,000 (and a lot more if the evidence is correct) and that is what mattered. That and Heather's wristbands. If she truly cared about the community center and it was a Unity thing (Don’t make me gag. Peace flags? What a stunt.) and she was as righteous as she would have you believe she would have made sure that the community center got enough money last year. If she TRULY cares and was the goddess some of you followers think, she would have dipped into her pie and split it up a little. All Carol cares about is Carol. Get real. Carol may have HELPED start ROTR but she certainly was not the only one. There were many many many. And many many many that had the vision. She just wants to take all the credit. I have never heard her say that the others were just as important as she thinks she was. Just as important as the guy or gal who picked up the trash after the first Reggae. The people who were there remember. They know. Carol will go down as the person who ruined ROTR. Her and Paul Bassis. The really sick thing is she doesn’t care. Now that is the kind of person Carol is. Get it right.
And now KMUD is the real community center? OH MY GOD!!
 
Class is something you cannot buy. Carol and Dimmick have no class. In the end they are losers. Just like Nixon was. He did some good things too but in the end he was a loser and that is how Carol and Dimmick will be remembered. Losers!!
 
things can get boring around here; carol and tom have some excitement in their lives now- its so crazy maybe they're going for the Movie- then we can fight for Those Rights?

we shall see if someone can legally steal a non-profit's main fund-raiser. could be its just business.

we are already creating our own legacies- i support mcc but i am glad i haven't been antogonistic to pp- this can all blow over and we will still be neighbors for decades.

she has seemed to dump the Caddy Escalade for a little dumbed down honda- why? haha
 
waah waah waah. it isn't fair,it isn't fair,it isn't fair,it isn't fair,it isn't fair,it isn't fair,it isn't fair,
 
BOO HOO BOO HOO BOO HOO
boots who?
 
I cannot believe that KMUD is taking over the community center. this is the biggest load of crap ever. how does a community radio station become the community center. this is horrible. Tanya needs to get another lawyer if she lets KMUD take over the community center then the board should really fire her. it completely mystifes me how we can allow such a callous attack on our beloved mateel. the KMUD needs to go down. call KMUD and complain, they shouldn't be the new community center, if the community supports KMUD in this malicious corporate takeover then I am going to refuse to pay them the 5 bucks I pledged.

Kurse you Estelle and your nazi mateel hating minions.
 
I think Estelle was speaking metaphorically to boost donations for a lagging fund drive. Questionable superlatives are how to talk during pledge drives. Estelle isn't the problem. We all know who the problem is.
 
Estelle may have meant that KMUD is the center of the community, which in some ways it is.. not that it is the community center, the building.. the place.. and what, are no PP people going to Ty's memorial because it's slated to happen at the Mateel? Crazy. PB will stay away? I think not...
 
It may be a little uncomfortable for those people to show up. Don't you think? Especially since they hate the Mateel so much and are facilitating it's demise.
 
Yes, and doesn't that epitomize the intensely sad irony of this situation.. that people who love and care for Ty and family may stay away from his memorial because of all the bad feelings between PP and the Mateel? Sad. So sad. Maybe the memorial will be at Beginnings.
 
That's absurd. The love for Ty and his family is stronger than any of this.

I will be there for Ty and his family regardless of where it is held.

I will also be at Coco's benefit.

The Mateel is still what WE make it.

Love takes no sides.
 
now I guess the MCC sits back and awaits its cash settlement, the Judge will decide how much the show was worth and the MCC will get its nut.

There is also a strong possibility that the Judge WILL NOT AWARD the MCC a single penny.

The case will be judged on it's MERITS and the MCC will have to substantiate, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is entitled monetary damages.
 
That should not be difficult. It's a slam dunk. They have been defrouded. Wouldn't it be funny if the MCC walks away with ownership of PP and the Dumbick Ranch.
 
It's not "shadow" of a doubt. It's "reasonable" doubt.
 
Let me ask O.J. Simpson.
 
How about Garth in green spandex

I'm THERE!!!

hugs and brownies for that marveloous vishual--must dash,
S
 
Hmmmm. It seemed unusually quiet around here yesterday. I guess everybody was just catching their breath.
 
In a civil suit, you don't have to meet a "reasonable doubt" standard. We're talking more like "preponderance of evidence." I think that means a judge or jury has to find that it's more likely than not that the Mateel is right. It's also likely that some of the charges in the lawsuit will be easier to show than others, and that the decision could be different on each.

Eric Are you sure it was the Mateel that filed for summary adjudication? Under the current circumstances, you would think it was RR/Tom/Carol that chooses that route.
 
Well, any one of them could do it. But I was mistaken. It's Tom D. who filed the motion.
 
As to the standards of proof, one professor basically described the preponderance standard as 51 percent certainty and beyond a reasonable doubt as 90 percent certainty.

Whatever that means.
 
hmmmmmm Makes you think.
 
where are boots and the mcc throwing Reggae this year? or are they waiting till next year. How about Petrolia?
 
"the MCC will get its nut."

I think they already have it and its name is Tanya
 
The meanspirited attacks on Tanya Stapp, or other board members are a clear view into the snide personality problem that runs rampant in the proPP commentary that litters this blog. Insulting anyone b'cuz of their flaws does not make you more worthy. Sadly, it just shows your lack of empathy and petty mindset.

We are all just people here folks. Believe it or not, reaching out to others, (even those you deem "unworthy" due to some perceived flaw) FEELS GOOD! In the end, it feels MUCH better than cutting someone down. Try it sometime, maybe we can have a legitimate dialog.

Right now, these threads are poisoned with way too many school yard style taunts and jeers, IMHO.
 
"The only thing worse than being mocked is being ignored"
Ezra Pound
 
"Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate.."
 
There's no end to the love you can give...
if you change
 
My Granny used to tell me, insults and meanspiritedness shows insecurity. You point out and mock flaws of other people without realizing what you are really pointing out is your own insecurity about who you are. It is safe for people to keep their flaws hidden to do this to people who wear their flaws. Some people wear their flaws on the outside and others hide until they speak (or write).
 
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make....
 
"you get out of life what you put into it."
 
You point out and mock flaws of other people without realizing what you are really pointing out is your own insecurity about who you are.

May your flaws come to life and kiss you on the face.
 
maybe its love or maybe your just a sucker for the one's who use you.
 
"The only thing worse than being mocked is being ignored"
Ezra Pound


Somebody's baiting me again!
 
And the days are not full enough

And the days are not full enough
And the nights are not full enough
And life slips by like a field mouse
Not shaking the grass

Ezra Pound

(can't resist poking the lawyer with poems!) Clarissa
 
From The Cantos

And then I slept
And, waking in the wasted air,
Saw and heard thus –
He whom I saw seemed like a cavalier,
And I heard this:
“Watching my people die
Does not satisfy
even if they broke their word,
Even if they deserve
to be governed by King Turd.
Roosevelt, Churchill and Eden
bastards to a man,
Liar, Jew and glutton
have squeezed the people dry
like sheep!


Charming stuff.
 
Well, I've never read any Pound , and now I'm convinced I never will.

Edgar Allan Poe, anyone? At least his pro-slavery sentiments weren't exhibited in his poetry, to the best of my knowledge. So, for anyone who doesn't know, ignorance really IS bliss.

Or is that cheating on my part? If it is, I'd better give up Jack London -- he was one racist, sexist motherf****r.
 
Don't give up on poor old mad Ezra, Cristina (though the rift quoted by Eric is not Pound at his best; the Cantos are a long, long, complex work). Pound wrote some of the most exquisite lyrics of the mid 20th century; not to mention his work with Eliot.
Many a terrible person has yet created works of enduring beauty, thereby demonstrating there is grace and hope for us all. Maybe.
Clarissa
 
London was indeed a racist. He freaked out when the Japanese made mincemeat out of the Russian navy when he covered it as a journalist.

He was also a socialist and when his fellow travelers called him on his racism he once said "I am a white man before I am a worker." Aryan Nation claims that White Fang is an allegory about the struggle of the white working man. London denied that any of his dog stories were anything but dog stories.

He did have redeeming qualities, and I've never heard that he mistreated nonwhite people he met. But it is disturbing.
 
Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.
 
Eliot was also a right winger, but I can filter that out. Pound's views were too extreme to separate from the work.
 
Who owns the CUP??????
 
Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow.

A refuge? I didn't even know it was a word.
 
You point out and mock flaws of other people without realizing what you are really pointing out is your own insecurity about who you are.

The only thing that sustains one through life is the consciousness of the immense inferiority of everybody else, and this is a feeling that I have always cultivated.
 
Well, I've never read any Pound , and now I'm convinced I never will.

What is the difference between literature and journalism?
...Journalism is unreadable and literature is not read.
 
Anon 10:30, it's been a really long day and I'm a little slow right now. What's the point of your comment?
 
Cristina, My point is that if one is not able to become detached from political, moral, social, and historical considerations when approaching the appreciation of poetry, one perhaps doesn't know the difference between literature and journalism.
 
Well, I very often am detached -- hence the examples of Poe and London, both of whose writing I love. The statement I made regarding Pound was in reference to the particular segment Eric posted, in which he articulated his prejudices in poetry. THAT, I must confess, disturbed me. The beauty of the composition is utterly lost when the meaning itself is ugly.

Believe me, I know the difference between literature and journalism. And unfortunately, at this juncture in my life I have way too little of the former and way too much of the latter!
 
"noempathynocry said...
The meanspirited attacks are a clear view into the snide personality problem that runs rampant in the commentary that litters this blog. Insulting anyone b'cuz of their flaws does not make you more worthy. Sadly, it just shows your lack of empathy and petty mindset. "

Petty Mindset? that seems pretty meanspirited and it really shows your lack of empathy
 
The beauty of the composition is utterly lost when the meaning itself is ugly.

Cristina, To me the subject matter or the 'meaning' doesn't matter, if the writing is good it will still be good as literature. Although it may be that some subject matter is so offensive that as humans we cannot detach ourselves from it enough to appreciate the art. And when the aesthetic quality of such work is very great it can be hard to cope with that contradiction.
 
It is kind of like this Reggae thing. Even though Carol has done a good job of producing Reggae on the River for many years, for most people in the community they will never be able to get past the attempted takeover of the event. People will not think about how well the event was run but how she attempted to hijack it and leave the Community Center in the lerch. How Carol Bruno attempted to ruin the Community Center for her own ego and fatten her wallet. No matter how irie she tries to portray herself the vast majority of the community will forever think of sister Carol as the person who tried to rip off the community. Just like some people cannot get around Poe as a racist or pro slavery fanatic or London as a racist, sexist mother f****r, a lot of people will not be able to get around Carol Bruno as a thief and Tom Dimmick as her alter ego.
 
Is it possible that Bruno saw the board of the community Center as being so incompetent and obtrusive that she saw the only chance to save the Reggae event was to go on her own, and thereby being the only chance to save the community Center in the long run?

One Love
 
Can someone please tell me what one good thing the ED has done fro the MCC since she was hired by her minions?
Press releases instead of dialogue.
Radio sound bites instead of solutions.
Hate instead of love.
I know Carol has not been perfect but her track record includes many successful contributuins to the well being of our little burg.
What has TS done for us instead of to us?
Maybe someone can explain why this drama made the MCC ED as famous as the Arcata COOP fiasco made her?
Why did she get hired?
When is she leaving? It is time for a new director.
Wait! She has to raise funds for the SAF. Grants are just flowing into the MCC coffers, aren't they?
How many are in the works right now? What grants are we awaiting news of acceptance for?
ANY???
 
Cristina, To me the subject matter or the 'meaning' doesn't matter, if the writing is good it will still be good as literature.

I don't think you can separate meaning from the aesthetics in any literature of value. If it is intended to disturb, then it's value lies in that success. But Pound doesn't intend to disturb. He's promoting an agenda. As such, it's fair to evaluate the art on the basis of content since the fascism is part if not all of the inspiration.
 
Pound had many agendas, wartime driveling the least of them. He was a snob heart-wrenched by civilization's suicide in WW I, and snobbery became his war crime of WW II. Before his over-the-hill-windbag days snobbery motivated good work that attempted to salvage some essences of what was lost forever. His Jew-baiting was mostly fashionable, he was an Idaho kid trying to show he was Park Avenue. Remember this was during the wartime administration of class traitor Rosenfeld, "The most hated man in America" by our social superiors. Your pal Mencken (mine too) was as casual with his contempt, and he didn't even go to Harvard.
 
Your concept of a nonprofit is limited and distorted. All this has been explained over and over again. Putting out false rumors does no one any good at all.
 
I don't think you can separate meaning from the aesthetics in any literature of value. If it is intended to disturb, then it's value lies in that success. But Pound doesn't intend to disturb. He's promoting an agenda. As such, it's fair to evaluate the art on the basis of content since the fascism is part if not all of the inspiration.

Nonsense, one doesn't have to agree with or even know the meaning or 'agenda' of the artist when appreciating the art as art ie the aesthetics. I can appreciate the aesthetics of great art which contains religious and mythological motifs, or historical references, without subscribing to or agreeing with their 'agenda' quite well, thank you. When I read the stories in ancient scripture, or contemplate Michaelangelo's 'David' , for instance, I take pleasure in the quality of the expression without going along with the meaning.
 
The set-up of this contest is so unfair. A volunteer board serving for heart goes up against a professional organization paying people wages and bennies to destroy that volunteer board and its chosen director, meeting after meeting, year after year for a decade. Then it blames them for "squandering" the money it doesn't pay them.

"Capitalism is above the law."
--Bob Dylan
 
"Equality," I spoke the word
As if a wedding vow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.
 
I think the ED OKed Carol's last contract along with the Board of Directors. I realize that still was not good enough for Sister Carol even though it has been said that she felt she received everything she wanted. So you don't like Taunya. You want to blame this all on Taunya. It sure seems to be convenient for you forget the Mateel Board of Directors decisions in this mess that PP Corp started. And they say they are unanimous whereas Carol gets to try to try rip off the Community Center without consulting anybody but her soulless conscience.
Just don’t forget that the preponderance standard is 51 percent certainty.
If the Board of Directors and the Executive Director take the Dimmick proposal the community will still never forget what Carol Bruno and Tom Dimmick have done. Never! People will remember the Board of Directors and the Executive Director doing everything they could to save the Community Center from a corporation trying to take away the biggest fund raiser it has. I hope Carol and Tom and PB enjoy their shopping in Murrish's for years to come.
 
Nonsense, one doesn't have to agree with or even know the meaning or 'agenda' of the artist when appreciating the art as art ie the aesthetics. I can appreciate the aesthetics of great art which contains religious and mythological motifs, or historical references, without subscribing to or agreeing with their 'agenda' quite well, thank you. When I read the stories in ancient scripture, or contemplate Michaelangelo's 'David' , for instance, I take pleasure in the quality of the expression without going along with the meaning.

I think most artists would take umbrage with your assertion that art is all form and no substance.
 
Is the letter of resignation that carol bruno gave to the mateel a matter of public record? where can someone go to read it?
 
What do you suggest the Mateel use for setting a price on this event?
 
I think most artists would take umbrage with your assertion that art is all form and no substance.

When it comes to art, form is substance. Your looking at art as though it were a means to an end, ART IS NOT A MEANS TO AN END!
To say that Pound's fascism inspired his art is absurd. His
fascism inspired the fascism contained in his writings. That has nothing to do with his 'art'.
So what you are really arguing is that Pound's fascism makes what he writes--the substance of his ideas, not of the art, not of the form-- so overwhelmingly inhumane that it distracts from, makes it unbearable to contemplate, the 'art'. That's a fair argument. But when the art is good enough, it transcends the subject matter.
Again, art is not a means to an end; but it is subordinate to other ends -- to morality, etc. ... It is subordinate to them but not a means or an instrument. One can appreciate the the art and hate the fascism--but it takes distancing oneself, detachment. If you can't see that--then you don't know what art is.
 
speeking of poitry i just got back from the new retro bepob cafe Wha? in Sac. where i gave a reading wearing my black beret and raparound shhades. And now this! wow this pound poet? Woa: is that's a fact"??? waoW. cool i'm digging him if his nmame
is LB snf hrr waht toke toke is hhe a artist? cool and if hes fast or a fastist that reallllly cool :-) i like a fast artist... I dont know awhat art is but i know awhat love is-- or shdd i say i know "where its at/ ? "" lol * & * yeah! soLets see how fast this thsing can go!! krazy man krazy! like she said wauy up in the 1st post--fast and prey!
just sayin is all,
S
 
S

Sun Apr 29, 05:28:00 PM

Blogging while stupid.
 
I must say, I've been enjoying not reading about Reggae (even though this thread is, ostensibly, about Reggae, it has become a much-despised subject to my heart)... and instead, reading people's opinions on art, Fascism, form vs. substance, and the merits (or not) of separating an artist's personal beliefs from his creations. Cool.
 
Reggae is done ,The ed and board can have reggae on the river and do what ever they want . How about a reggae on the river barbecue at the Ed's house .. She got what she wanted control of reggae on the river . Good luck
 
This Blog will crash your computer in 3 minutes if you post any negativity
 
negativity
 
Ty and Coco are at the gate sharing a fat one with Peter while Gabriel is playing Redemption Song on the trumpet. Peter says "you were loved by your friends and families and community so you get to come in to heaven. You lived good lives but what happened to that community founded by poor exiles from the 60's who became loving stewards of land that had been plundered for its resources and nurtured a crop from one of the most useful plants god ever bestowed upon humanity. How did it get so torn asunder?"

Coco and Ty began to tell the story of the Mateel and Reggae on the River. Peter said "He knew much of the early part from people like Harold Murrish, Jan Iris, Rod Deal, and many others who had already passed through the gates." This was true, he had heard it many times but Coco also told stories of Norton Buffalo drinking Tequilla turned green by giant flower tops, Jerry Garcia stoned out of his mind, the harvest ball, Vibrum Soul, Taj Mahal, Judy Mowat,The Chambers Brothers, The Red Hot Chile Peppers getting naked,of boogies and kids sleeping in the corner while their parents partied into the night.

Coco started to tell about the later years and Peter just shook his head "I hope the community can pull together before the players all totally lose their souls."

And I hope so too. Although I have not lived there for many years I have never been able to sell my land. It always provided me a sense of connection to a community I loved in a beautiful place. I guess its finally time and when I do I doubt I will lament taking the money and running.

Over the years I've seen so many things fade away like the use of CB radios, the Southern Humboldt Women's Music Festival and The Acorn Alliance. This entire Reggae debacle makes me sad. I loved you Southern Humboldt and I hope you all find your way on your path.
 
bye bye, sell out.
 
. But when the art is good enough, it transcends the subject matter.
Again, art is not a means to an end; but it is subordinate to other ends -- to morality, etc. ... It is subordinate to them but not a means or an instrument. One can appreciate the the art and hate the fascism--but it takes distancing oneself, detachment. If you can't see that--then you don't know what art is.


Let me address the first sentence first. Well, let me start by saying that art may or may not be a means to an end. I don't think it has to be one way or another. But when art is a means to an end, it is more than fair to judge the art on that basis. If it transcends the subject matter then it fails on its own terms.

The passage from The Cantos above does not transcend the subject matter because it is steeped in it. It does not fail in its purpose, and its form is structured around the aim - the expression of anger with, among other people, Jews.

To appreciate the form because it "transcends" the anti-semitism not only ignores the impact on the recipient of the art, particularly Jews, but also denies the expression itself. Pound would not be happy to hear you say that his substance does not matter, because his substance is his art. Then he's probably tear his ear off or something.

Bertolt Brecht once said "art is not a reflection of reality, but rather a hammer by which to manipulate it." (paraphrasing from bad memory). Well, it's true - for Brecht. He defines the terms of his art. Pound defines the terms of his.

You can't say the passage above is not inspired by his fascism. It's an expression of his fascism. Or it's nothing.
 
The River-Merchant's Wife

While my hair was still cut straight across my forehead
I played about the front gate, pulling flowers.
You came by on bamboo stilts, playing horse,
You walked about my seat, playing with blue plums.
And we went on living in the village of Chokan:
Two small people, without dislike or suspicion.

At fourteen I married My Lord you.
I never laughed, being bashful.
Lowering my head, I looked at the wall.
Called to, a thousand times, I never looked back.

At fifteen I stopped scowling,
I desired my dust to be mingled with yours
Forever and forever and forever.
Why should I climb the lookout?

At sixteen you departed,
You went into far Ku-to-en, by the river of swirling eddies,
And you have been gone five months.
The monkeys make sorrowful noise overhead.

You dragged your feet when you went out.
By the gate now, the moss is grown, the different mosses,
Too deep to clear them away!
The leaves fall early this autumn, in wind.
The paired butterflies are already yellow with August
Over the grass in the West garden;
They hurt me. I grow older.
If you are coming down through the narrows of the river Kiang,
Please let me know beforehand,
And I will come out to meet you
As far as Cho-fo-Sa.

Ezra Pound

copying this one out for Cristina, who..maybe..may like it. I have to thank Eric for making me take out my collected Pound these past days; I am having a wonderful time with this great poet (and yes, it is a rest from the community obsession).
Clarissa
 
art may or may not be a means to an end. I don't think it has to be one way or another.

You are wrong and you don't know what art is.
 
Looks to me like art is escapism. You've doomed me to a morning without Reggae . . .
 
The word art is a limitation in our vocabulary. There is art on a social basis and art on a private basis. There is only one term to describe each.
 
"I hope Carol and Tom and PB enjoy their shopping in Murrish's for years to come."

Sun Apr 29, 11:45:00 AM

don't you realize Murrish's doesn't exist anymore. it was taken over by Ray's Shop Smart. oh and Ray's took over Sentry Market, which took over after Kash, Lewis, and Peter Pan markets. which leaves us with a big corporate take over of our food supply. anyone notice the price of food around here has dramatically risen in the past few years, way more than other areas. Now here is a community crisis people, where is our S.H.E.L. go ahead and bicker about local control of reggae, meanwhile our food supply is being dictated over by OREGONIANS.
 
What you say? I just got use to it not being Mendes.
It was only a matter of time before the OREGONIANS took over. We are prepared though.
 
Local grocery stores charge growers prices.
 
there is some funny stuff on this blog so i guess its worth something...what about the supposed poliltical influence of blogs? does the back and forth about reggae for example have any influence outside this blog? IN this blog?...

anyway the occaisional humor makes me actually laugh out loud at times, which is a good thing, right?...

this blog is still like a secret society- very small minority of community members know whats going on here or are on here...
 
So.. Ezra Pound is a Reggae singer?
 
this blog is still like a secret society- very small minority of community members know whats going on here or are on here...

Actually, my hits range from 800 to 1600 a day, I believe about half of them local.
 
You are wrong and you don't know what art is.

Oh God! Were you an art major who dropped out of UC Santa Cruz in your third year?
 
"...copying this one out for Cristina, who..maybe..may like it."

Why, thank you VERY much for your effort. And I DID like it!

A note to Anon 8:48: you may be correct about the "very small minority of community members" who participate in this particular blog, but in the last few weeks, I've been really amazed by the number of people I've seen on the street, or in meetings, who've said something to me about what little blogging I do here. I think there are quite a few who check in here for the same reason I do -- to get a feel of the pulse of the community -- without necessarily contributing themselves.

As for the political influence of blogs, obviously, that's still very debatable. It seems to me sometimes that, no matter WHAT way public opinion swings, politicians will just keep following the money.

Yes, I'm cynical.
 
And that dandy titan of county opinion Hank Sims, who often dabbles here, actually asked us to defend anonymity. He responded to a few easy points, ignored the interesting ones and then attacked all anonymites in the NCJ while strengthening the political vapors of the blogosphere. And that's what it's like here. First and foremost it's an opinion-bath of questionable worth--but what one isn't? It's great charm is authentic diversity, which floats among prostituted and second-hand opinions, just like out there in the world.

As was argued to no avail to Hank, what this does best is give us a fence to lean on for chatting with neighbors, without a band to shout over. It's a genuine way to reach out of the isolation that is increasingly characteristic of our SoHum hill and ville life, just like the rest of the country (though for some idiosyncratic reasons of our own, too).

Anyway, I really enjoy it without taking it as seriously as it feels when my fingers are on fire.

So back to Ezra Pound: it was the PC police who set him up as a propaganda prop after the war. It's like he was the last man to say "the N word" on radio, got arrested for insensitivity and--ta da!--nobody said the N word. What does that have to do with poetry?
 
eric, there are many multiple hits; for example today i have already "hit" you at least ten times, and i'm probably not the only "get a life" kind of person around.
cristina: so ten people came up to you in the last week? there's still 10 000 others who didn't.
not that i have any particular axe to grind about this.
 
To be clear, there's a difference between 'hits', 'visits', and 'page views'.

If you have 10 images on your page, every visit equals 11 'hits' (10 images and the page itself), including icons, pictures, and avatars.

Then you can break that down to unique hits, unique visits, and unique page views.

If I view a page 10 times, that counts as 10 visits, 10 page views, but 1 unique visit still.

One person refreshing a page with 9 images on it 10 times would equal 100 hits.
 
eric, there are many multiple hits; for example today i have already "hit" you at least ten times, and i'm probably not the only "get a life" kind of person around.

My "visits" number 500 to 1000, and my "page views" number from 1000 to 2000. I still haven't learned the difference between a "hit" and a "visit," but according to the meter if the same person comes back within a certain amount of time it's the same "visit."

I have no way of knowing how many are coming, but I can't get through a trip to the store without having somebody spark up a conversation about it. I suspect that there are about 30 to 40 local "regulars" (daily) who come here and read with maybe 10 to 15 who post regularly. I expect a much larger number checks in once or twice a week.

The number of visits, hits, page views climbs every month, although I get hits from google searches to old posts and also there is a Nohum crowd that comes here when it isn't dominated with Reggae stuff.

According to technorati about 20 to 30 blogs have linked to my site. I get some traffic from then as well, again when the topics are of more broad interest.

My liberal country songs post continues to get hits almost a year later.
 
Oh God! Were you an art major who dropped out of UC Santa Cruz in your third year?

IMHO... Clarissa has cultivated taste and she seems to realize
from experience that taste changes only in that it corrects itself.

Cristina has an open mind, she is a civilized person and so she
is developing taste. Developing taste means becoming more
discriminating, but paradoxically, also more open. Her taste will expand and grow, growth means increasing openness, inclusion rather than exclusion.

But Eric, when it comes to art, is an ignorant oaf and a
self-righteous bigot who confuses morality with art and values
winning an argument more than he does learning something ...And
when he can't win--he resorts to defensive stereotyping. I'm
just trying to be honest. You don't judge an artist by one or two of his passages that may
have failed. You look at the whole oeuvre. Especially when you
are considering an artist whose reputation is that of one the the
greatest innovators and one of the great poets of the early 20th
century. I don't think there is an important poet of the last 100 years who does not in various ways owe a part of his or her worth to Pound.
 
Oeuvre = The sum of the lifework of an artist, writer, or composer.
 
Hey! Gimme another 'hit' off that blog...
 
An "oaf??????"

Boy, you complain about my invocation of stereotypes then you make it so easy!

Anyway, you might also want to forgo the strawman approach to debate. It doesn't enhance your argument. It undermines it.
 
I agree. Maybe you're just trying to fit in by imitating the blog bullies, but you'll notice they don't spark much response.
 
and still no ones bought a reggae rising ticket...but i hear the mateel has sold their aloted 4000 tix....looks like the comunity is backing mateel.....
no if only the non profits would realize that they are in serious jeoperdy...cause you know that there are no NP at shoreline...and TD and dansun have already let it slip that their intention is to make a real venue(shoreline style) the permitt already allows for 6 shows per year....can anyone say hostile takeover? youd think that theyd be happy with their own 5 shows and leave RotR the F' alone
 
Well, this time I must say that you are right: I shouldn't have stooped to your level. My mistake, and I apologize. But you keep avoiding the crux of the argument--which is about art being a means to an end. That's where we disagree. So we shall agree to disagree. Have a good day.
 
No kidding...4,000 tickets? Do you know that for sure? Where is that posted?
 
So you handle ticketing for Reggae Rising? Is that how you know whether or not they've sold tickets?

(eye roll)

Your really bad spin is making me dizzy.
 
1:45PM: Since you seem to know so much about the ticketing, how about the lineup? Can you tell me why Kymani's still listed when I hear he's left the lineup? Or Luciano being that I hear he's ALSO not on the lineup cus he's doing the Sunsplash tour?
 
But you keep avoiding the crux of the argument--which is about art being a means to an end.

The problem is, that's not what I said.
 
anon 1:45

4,000 tickets?...Put-up or shut-up!
 
Sure is quiet.......
 
But you keep avoiding the crux of the argument--which is about art being a means to an end.

The problem is, that's not what I said.


Excuse me, but you said, "Well, let me start by saying that art may or may not be a means to an end."
and I said, "ART IS NOT A MEANS TO AN END!"
 
4000 tickets sold?
4000 refunds soon.
 
Excuse me, but you said, "Well, let me start by saying that art may or may not be a means to an end."
and I said, "ART IS NOT A MEANS TO AN END!"


Well, that's different. I said it can be. You disagree that it can be. I'm simply saying that art is whatever the artist wants it to be. You're the one imposing limitations. Apparently you know what art is, but the artists themselves do not know what it is when they have an end in mind.

But at least you got my argument right this time around.
 
Apparently you know what art is, but the artists themselves do not know what it is when they have an end in mind.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying--not imposing limitations, but rather stating a truth... That's been recognized widely since the time of Ezra Pound.
 
Well, nobody told Brecht that.

“Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which
to shape it.”

Bertolt Brecht quotes (German poet and playwright, 1898-1956)


Karel Rose also disagrees.

The collaboration with the Lincoln Center Institute has both dignified and facilitated this work and highlighted the aesthetic dimension of teaching. For too long, art encounters have been locked into the false dichotomy of either art for its own sake or art as a means to an end. The work of Elliot Eisner and Harry Broudy along with my own teaching experiences have convinced me that it is not an either/or situation. We can enjoy art purely for itself but we can also view it as a rigorous opportunity for reflection and intellectual growth. A painting, a symphony, a poem, or a ballet may be the pathway for thinking about social issues, cultural differences, personal concerns, artistic forms or the creative process itself. In my classes, aesthetic experiences have served a curriculum agenda that has literacy as its centerpiece. As students reconstruct meanings, develop thinking in different symbol systems, activate prior knowledge, and organize experiences narratively, they are shaping their language understandings. Thoughtful engagements with the arts can overcome the damaging notion that arts education is frivolous and simply an add-on to the “real” curriculum.


And even more to the point, Ezra Pound disagrees with you, at least according to this biographer (Kerry Bolton):

Vorticism was for Pound the first major experience in revolutionary propagandizing and the first cause that placed him beyond the pale of orthodoxy. Pound saw Vorticism as setting "the arts in their rightful place as the acknowledged guide and lamp of civilization." In this way the arts were welded in a mystical union with politics in the manner already envisaged by Yeats.
 
Did I mention Yeats?
 
I didn't say there weren't exceptions, Eric, I said it's been widely recognized. As for Pound, remember, he was crazy...
 
Let's see. Carol Bruno, Tom Dimmick, Garth Eppling, Judge Watson, the guy who thinks he may possibly know who belongs to the CUP, Clarissa, Cristina Bauss, Taunya Stapp, Lawyer this, Lawyer that, Ernie, even this Eric Kirk guy. Where the hell does Ezra Pound fit in. Even UC Santa Cruz was mentioned but Ezra Pound? WTF is that all about? Let's stay focused here folks!
 
fuck it dude its more fun not to stay focused: listening to eric expound on everything and getting challenged; learning shit about authors and poetry- yeah it can be a mashup...

and what else?
oh yeah-good luck MCC, you'll (we'll ) need it...

and eric, you say this reggae thing bores you but its your most popular subject and you're always here too...

eric, you say you have some definite opinions that you'll expound upon when this is all over- why not NOW anonymously?...just wondering...
 
I'm simply saying that art is whatever the artist wants it to be. You're the one imposing limitations
No, Eric, you are the one imposing limits by trying to define art,
by saying it's, "whatever the artist wants it to be". I am sorry but I don't accept your definition.
 
anon 6:11pm
"Let's see. Carol Bruno, Tom Dimmick, Garth Eppling, Judge Watson, the guy who thinks he may possibly know who belongs to the CUP, Clarissa, Cristina Bauss, Taunya Stapp, Lawyer this, Lawyer that, Ernie, even this Eric Kirk guy. Where the hell does Ezra Pound fit in."

Maybe it's that we're all just a little bit crazy! Like Ezra Pound.
 
What do you think of this fascist artist ?
 
if only it were a gimmick!! if all is lost for the mateel, thanks to carol bruno, i will be gathering as many people together as i can to ask the planning commission to revoke the conditional use permit..and send all the greedy bast**ds back under the slimey rocks from where they came.
 
hmmm, sounds like a plan- THAT should ignite this thread...
 
has anyone driven down Redway drive and past the road ending traffic thingy down by dazey's motorsports. that was brought to us by the planning commission, and Kirk giraud should be publicly exfoliated because he thought it was a good idea.
 
whats wrong with it? its just kinda weird and you have to jog around it? is that traffic calming?
 
and eric, you say this reggae thing bores you but its your most popular subject and you're always here too...

I'm just here for the Ezra Pound debate.

As to giving my opinions anonymously, I prefer to sign my name to what I write. Probably ego more than scruples.
 
Eric V. Kirk said...
I am An "oaf??????"

Boy, you complain about my invocation of stereotypes then you make it so easy to use the strawman approach to debate. It doesn't enhance your argument. It undermines the monkey.

Mon Apr 30, 01:06:00 PM

why so hard on yourself? or is someone changing the blog blog blog blog blog blog blog blog blog blog blog blog
 
"The worst mistake I made was that stupid suburban prejudice of anti-semitism."

Ezra Pound (1885-1972) Allen Ginsberg interview. Evergreen Review June 1968
 
Anonymous : Mon Apr 30, 01:45:00 PM Said "4000 tix....looks like the comunity is backing mateel..."
Since when does the community buy tickets to Reggae? I NEVER have. What kind of assumption is that to assume that tickets sold=community support?
 
a specious one?
 
What do you think of this fascist artist ?

I think Dali's artistic contribution is great and his fascism incidental.
 
The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of
autobiography. Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault.

Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the elected, for these there is hope. They are the elect to whom beautiful things mean only beauty.

There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written. That is all.

No artist has ethical sympathies.

An ethical sympathy in an artist is an unpardonable mannerism of style.

The moral life of man forms part of the subject-matter of the artist, but the morality of art consists in the perfect use of an imperfect medium. No artist desires to prove anything.

Thought and language are to the artist instruments of an art.

It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors.

When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself.

************************

Thus said Oscar Wilde, father, noted author, scholar, homosexual and libertine, but still very Victorian, while on trial in a civil suit for defamation of character. The actual charge against his character was made by the father of one of his friendboys, and was "To Oscar Wilde, posing as a homosexual." Oscar bridled at the insinuation,
and with great hubris and big swinging brass balls brought the man to court. These words are taken from the transcript of his questioning on the stand. The jurists found that the charge was
true, and Oscar, indicted on charges of sodomy, went from tippling absinthe at musky club rooms to pounding rocks.
 
RR isn't selling tickets because no one who buys tickets has ever heard of it (and everyone who's heard of it was already laminated). Where Reggae buyers live isn't as central as their ticket money. That's the other weak point in Carol's business plan. The first was she didn't steal the trademark first, so she can't now flag in consumers to her private show. Now wonder she has amphitheater promoters for new partners! As always, planning ahead . . .
 
ART is LOVE and
LOVE is ART
ART is LOVE and
LOVE is ART
ART is LOVE and
LOVE is ART
ART is LOVE and
LOVE is ART
ART is LOVE and
LOVE is ART.

 
and Reggae is business.
 
Carol Bush, oops, I mean Carol Bruno, is starting to remind me alot of George Bush. Can't decide if she is a Republican elitist, she is definitely a Reggae Elitist. Under the guise of doing what's best for the community, her "Mission Accomplished" is stealing ROTR.. Carol Bush/Bruno, like G.W., surrounds herself with reggae yes men who tell her what she wants to hear. And she surrounds herself with cronies. Paul Rove, oops again, Paul Bassis is the consumate Reggae spinmister. Telling Carol Bush/Bruno that everyone else is so incompetent, "we have to steal ROTR for the safety of the community"

REVOKE the permit if any name other than the MCC appears on it!!!!!!!!!
 
Undermines the monkey?
 
"Roosevelt, Churchill and Eden
bastards to a man,...
have squeezed the people dry
like sheep!"

so true :(
 
ART is LOVE and
LOVE is ART

Right, and ignorance is bliss.
 
ART is LOVE and LOVE is ART.
Tue May 01, 09:07:00 AM

and Reggae is business.
Tue May 01, 09:13:00 AM

By the pressures of the market economy we live in, we’ve been fooled into believing that there is only one way in which things are exchanged: through money transactions, or buying and selling.
Money transactions create no bonds of love or gratitude, and imply no obligations. Gifts, on the other hand, are reciprocal, and also emotionally loaded: market exchanges move through the bank account, gifts through the heart. Where the gift circulates, spiritual life flourishes.
Our society has overemphasized the market and denied the gift, and the result is stagnant wealth on the one hand and spiritual death and material poverty on the other.
The artist belongs primarily to the gift economy; without that element of creation which arrives uncommanded and cannot be bought, the work is unlikely to be alive.
 
anybodie know were I can get some absinthe?
oops, i swallowed my gum,
S
 
"anybodie know were I can get some absinthe?"

Make friends with Marilyn Manson. He collects it.
 
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