SoHum Parlance

What is it with today's liberals? In the old days liberals had vision.
 

As one who is strongly in favor of a bike path between the cities--and also would love our train operating, I have to point out that the tremendously successful rail systems of Europe are state-funded.

Travel by rail is eminently civilized. Imagine a six hour trip to The Bay Area in which you could focus on a book or magazine--or our magnificent scenery--instead of the dashboard of a car. Our former pubic works director is surely correct in pointing out how costly train would be. However, it's a cost the taxpayers should bear. Private railroads are no more feasible than private freeways.
 

I like the idea of a rail system because it will be much more efficient then the road system when we have to remove the damn Chinese from this county again. Hey the Germans were pretty successful!
 

I'm a train fan myself, perhaps if we had a functioning passenger service to the Bay Area the traffic on US 101 would be reduced (as it certainly would by shipping on the train) and either we wouldn't need all those improvements or future improvements could be defered or never built.

On the other hand it is cheaper and more pleasant to bus to the Bay Area on Amtrack now than on Greyhound but very few people do it.

Still, I'm a train fan, and if you factor in the costs of all those automobiles and trucks needed now to use 101, and the environmental costs of producing, and using them, perhaps the train would be a bargain after all.
 

I'd like to see a ferry to the Bay Area myself. Seems like it'd be more affordable. And FEMA has made it clear that they won't allow passenger rail through the Eel River Valley, so really the only route would be over to Redding and then down.
 

I wouldn't cite John Murray as a fountainhead of sane planning. He's the one who gave us that butt-ugly jail right in the middle of downtown Eureka -- the original plan was to put it, guess where, at the Balloon Tract
 

A ferry would be nice, but let's just face it. A population of 126,000 people who are largely working poor barely justifies the road network servicing it right now. They're not just going to stop repaving the freeway, so those costs will continue for the foreseeable future. Both a ferry and rail would be ridiculous. It's better for the state and country to spend $150,000,000 upgrading highway 37 (Which services far more people) than to spend that on reestablishing rail or building a couple ferry's and a terminal.
 

Highway 37 is in the Bay Area btw between Novato and Vallejo.
 

A ferry could be a tourist draw however. They're used in BC and Alaska as a cheaper alternative to cruises.
 

no one is proposing a passenger train to the bay area.....no one!!!

the only train that is proposed will haul freight, not people. was there EVER a passenger train from humboldt county to the bay area? elighten me
 

Theres no doubt a ferry would help. But would it justify the costs? And also Eric, you should go out to the North Jetty in December when all the big storms roll in. It's very entertaining - but my point is that the channel is really rough and dangerous. Ferry service would literally have to be canceled for weeks at a time when those big storms roll in and you've got people standing on the dunes almost getting splashed with water. The waves are virtually that big.
 

You can compare the difficulty in rebuilding the rail through the Eel River canyon to the massive construction job on 101 at Confusion Hill. It took years of trying to maintain that piece of highway to justify the expense that the new "permanent" fix is costing. Now multiply that effort some 20 plus times and you might get a "permanent" fix to the rail.

In 1998 FEMA estimated $648 million for such a "permanent" fix for the rail.
 

5:48, yes, there was regular passenger service to the Bay Area for many years, but it only brought in a fraction of the receipts required to operate the railroad. A retired RR employee told me passenger service never amounted to more than 2 or 3 per cent. The line was built for lumber. Towns like Fort Seward were laid out on the railroad but never caught on because they were simply too far away from the world. It's history, folks. Reminisce. But Murray's probably right.
 

5:48 P yes there was a regularly scheduled passenger train, a long time ago.

Mike, why do you not also state the study, that came after that, 75 to 90 million? Done by people who know freight railroading, VS transit.
 

I know this is the wrong thread and it belongs below. I'M just doing a little damage control caused by "Anonymous.

Wow! I haven’t seen such a mess since my cousins pet goose got loose in grandma’s kitchen. It took my cousin and I about a half hour to catch the damn thing! There was broken dishes, broken glasses, feathers and goose crap everywhere, my cousin and I steadfastly claimed that we didn’t know who left the door open, but it was probably my sister. We thought it was true, because who else could it be? Needless to say, sis was pissed when she found out, because she wasn’t even there, she got in big trouble before my dad told grandma that the dog had pushed the door open, because he had seen the dog do it before. I secretly think the dog liked doing that.

What the heck does that have to do with this blog you say? Well, I’ve been out, and I come back to find that “Anonymous” has pushed the door open and let the crap fly.

I asked Estelle what P.B. had to do with her campaign. Her reply was that her only contact with P.B. was when he warned her not to run, that she would only get hurt. Why does she have to put up with all the lies and crap that fly’s off of the fingers of the backbiter’s that lurk here and jump in as soon as it looks like no one is watching?

The next rumor will be that Carol is in the drivers seat and she is really pulling all the strings in Estelle’s campaign. Nothing could be further from the truth, and she and Carol have not even discussed the run for supervisor.

I asked her if P.B. C.B. or P.P were helping to finance her campaign, and she said absolutely not, but if they donated to her campaign she would accept it as a contribution and properly record it.

Any dirt that anyone tries to sneak out there from this point on will only bring Estelle more support, because people don’t like backbiting. And, they don’t like sneaky chicken eating anonymous dogs that keep pushing the door open and letting the crap fly!

Anonymous, try saying something good about your candidate… you do have one… don’t you? But, then again, something nice out of you would be unbelievable.

Now for the good side: There has been a ground swell of support for Estelle, and she is very encouraged. She say’s that no matter what happens from this point on that nothing can hurt her, because she has found out what true friends she really has, and they are going way out of their way to support her. She is already busy talking to people at public meetings, and meeting with people that don’t know her yet . Most people are surprised to find that she has members of all parties, across the board supporting her, and they are going to the trouble of finding out why. They don’t have to talk to Estelle long to offer her their support also. She has been a great student of politics.

Don’t believe anything you read, and only half of what you see. If it’s from “Anonymous” it’ stands a very good chance of being goose crap. Estelle will be more than glad to answer any of your questions in public, but she has said that she would not respond to anyone that wouldn’t face her. Seems fair and “Civil” to me.
 

Ernie Branscomb said...

Well, I'll tell you what I think about this so-called Ernie. I think it is really Fred, disguised as "Ernie."

Fred, no doubt, is sore about his thread walking over here, where we anonynmous posters are still welcome. Fred thought he had killed us off, but he was wrong. Now we just take our wisdom and our wit and regale the people on other people's blogs with both.

In the meantime, his blog whithers as fewer and fewer people bother to drop by, since their participation is no longer welcome.

Now, Fred, unwilling to admit defeat, is prowling other people's blogs, disguised as this fictious "Ernie" and spouting indecypherable paragraphs ostensibly concerning hot topics of the day. His hopes of defeating us in this new way are doomed, but he is too blinded by his own self-importance to realize it.

You can't win, Fred. We, the Anonymous Posting People, can never be defeated! As we used to chant as we marched along against the war and injustice, "Ho, Ho, Homosexual! The Ruling Class is Ineffectual!"
 

Earnie, wrong topic. We know you're promoting Estelle's candidacy but this discussion is about the railway.

I still want to see figures on how much money it is taking to maintain hwy 101 each year. I know that it is soaking up millions, perhaps billions of dollars over a ten year period. Heavy trucks are doing 90% of the damage to highways. Get them off the highways and the highways will last for years longer.

I have been promoting here and there since 1976 when the topic arises, a solar-monorail system solution to replace highways. I am not an economist but I have a strong feeling that when the cost of maintaining hwy 101 pavement that is broken down mainly by heavy freight trucking is compiled over a 10 year period we are talking perhaps over a billion dollars in repair work.

The Eel River canyon poses no substantial problem for a monorail system while a two-track on the ground system will always be vulnerable to landslides.

Close the highways down. Tear up the asphalt and use chunks of it for retaining walls wherever needed. Have the State lease or sell land plots where the old highway was, create ribbon tourist cities, organic gardens, orchards, tree farms in the place where the highway was and use the sales and leases of land to pay for the whole system.

Long distance travel needed with a car at the end? Make small durable electric or hydrogen fuel cell cars that can be put onto car ferries on a solar rail system.

Freight and passenger service, all run on energy from the sun and get rid of the oil burners and asphalt pavement.

Eric's idea of a ferry system to the Bay Area is a good tourist attraction idea for tourist season (dry season).
 

Ernie - thanks for the post. I'll put it onto the main page for it's own thread. I have a few points to add.
 

The study on the rail Lawrence alludes to is NOT for a permanent fix. It is only to repair to the status-quo.
 

Fred's blog has been dead for some time now. It was only popular back when the number of blogs was quite low. It used to be Buhne Tribune, Freds blog and maybe Heraldo. Now Eric's blog is probably the busiest along with Heraldo and Rose.

Want to know why?

Because all three seem to have some intelligence about them. Sure there are things to criticize. But Fred NEVER cites anything and everything he says is based off his own ignorance and stupidity. People caught on and if theres one thing Fred hates, it's questions that make him think or make him reconsider positions he got off talk radio.
 

To Anonymous 10:07:00 PM:
You, Sir, are a Gentleman and a Scholar!
 

We are coming.
 

Mike, have you read the study yet? Last I heard is your still looking for it.

"More to the point, another study, also done in 1998, by Shannon and Wilson of Seattle, the preeminent railroad geotechnical engineering firm (and a geotechnical consultant to every major railroad in North America with geologic challenges) estimated the Eel River Canyon repair and stabilization costs at about $75 million to $90 million, depending on the cost of rip rap. That program would not yield a “permanent fix” for the canyon, but, in S&W’s expert opinion, their program would slow the rate of earth movement to the point an orderly annual program could deal with the remaining winter-time issues in a cost-effective way. Catastrophe would remain problems for NCRA and FEMA."

You want to hold the railroad to the higher standard, when there is many fixes still needed for the highway. Your whole point, is that you HATE the railroad, and will discard anything that doesn't help you get rid of the railroad.
 

An anon wrote, "Fred, no doubt, is sore about his thread walking over here, where we anonynmous posters are still welcome.".

Nope. I never banned anonymous posters. Anyone can still post to my blog. I just took the liberty of moderating comments so I wouldn't have to end up going through the comments later and deleting the stupid ones.

So, I don't really care if you comment on my blog, or not. In fact, I'm kind of enjoying it nice and quiet as it is right now. If you want to comment, hack away, but stupid comments won't be posted and, yes, I decide what comments are stupid.
 

Fred - I kind of enjoyed the quiet when I moderated as well. But I couldn't get to the blog often enough to keep the discussions flowing.
 

Discussions can be nice, but they weren't as nice unmoderated. Leave to one or two people to make it a headache.

Still, I am kind of enjoying the silence. I can come to your and other blogs for noise.

The moderating is a bit of a hassle and I think stifles conversation a bit but, at least it's not like my West Coast Libertarians Yahoo Group where I even have to approve my own posts.
 

Capdiamont, why do you hate the trail so much?
 

Fred you have so much time on your hands being on welfare and all... I would have figured putting in an extra ten minutes on the computer wouldn't be a hassle.
 

Fred wears Velcro shoe's because he never figured out how to tie his own shoes. That's how dumb Fred is.
 

A few points, the folks in Marin are already organizing against any reestablishment of rail service to the bay from the north. The Franciscan geology of this area will make it very expensive to maintain the line through the Eel River canyon. No one has been able to identify any serious shippers who will commit to using the line. Humboldt Bay is not suitable for container handling in any kind of volumn. Having been thru the canyon several times I don't think even a bike trail could be stabilized enough to be useful over the existing roadbed.
 

"Having been thru the canyon several times I don't think even a bike trail could be stabilized enough to be useful over the existing roadbed."

That's why a monorail above the ground make sense.
 

Except, Steve, a monorail would still need its tracks embedded in the same ground conventional rail would.
 

Hey Lawrence - stop putting words in my mouth. I do not HATE trains.

In fact I worked for the railroad on a ROW maintenance crew back in Wisconsin for several years. Repairing rail on a freight line.

When I lived down south I regularly rode CalTrain for 15 years and loved it. So much better than BART.

However, I am a realist.
 

Fred, once again you know nothing on the subject at hand, yet you run your mouth. While Stephens solar monorail idea is bad, it is well known that monorail has far less of an environmental impact than traditional rail. Read a book or two and you might, just might, figure out why.
 

I hate trains AND trails. And poodles too.
 

Uh, anonymous, please tell us why a solar monorail idea is "bad"? Did a solar monorail commit some sort of crime?

Are you talking about costs? Again and again, I dare solar monorail critics to post the actual costs of maintaining Hwy 101 these last ten years and I will almost guarantee you the amount of money spent will dwarf the amount of money needed to build a solar monorail.

Tear up the existing highways and sell and lease the freed land beneath the asphalt. That will pay for the construction and continual maintenance of the monorail system that runs of free energy from the sun vs. diesel and gasoline prices going through the roof.
 

Are we going to get off oil dependency or not? Solar energy is available everyday in California somewhere in the state even in winter storm times. I know I'm talking a future that won't happen overnight but we have to get serious about using local energy sources instead of paying through the nose to oil corporations and their government protectors fucking up the whole Middle East.
 

Stephen, while I will agree with you that the monorail would not have a gigantic environmental impact... it isn't practical. You cant use monorails for cargo for instance, such as lumber or anything heavy. It also isn't sunny in this county 6 months out of the year. Monorails are also highly susceptible to Earthquake damage. And could you point out to anywhere in the world that gave up road infrastructure for a maglev system?
 

No, he can't because there are none, unless you count devices made in sandboxes.
 

11:43 Why do you say that? If you have read what I have posted in many places, that I support rail and trail, on both sides, not just 101. I think it is a big mistake to rip up the rail.

Mike, did you fall off your rocker a bit? Get it Bit? For being a realist, and supposedly an open mind. You can't seem to deal with reality very well. For one thing I said you hate the railroad, meaning the local railroad. You stated that anything is possible with an open mind. So far it is just words with you.

Mike, you have yet to deal with reality, of the time line of getting the trail running, rail banking/trails to trails VS rail with trail.

Stephen, the mono rail will take a large amount of concrete. That concrete takes a great deal of energy to make. The mono rail doesn't carry freight.

6:09: While Humboldt Bay area isn't known for it's sunny days, there are other parts of Humboldt that more sunny days. 2nd while we tend to think of foggy, and light clouds as not being enough to run solar modules. There are quite a few solar modules that do quite well under those conditions. Add MPPT, and tracking arrays, plus the efficiency is increasing. Add other RE sources wind, wave, micro hydro, etc and we can get there.
 

What is this, "you can't use a monorail for hauling cargo" nonsense? Most present day monorails are for passenger trains , that's true but I'm talking a whole new system--there are no solar monorails yet--we have to develop them and we can do it to make them do the jobs we need them to do.

I'm a problem solver. I don't stop where most others get stuck trying to figure out solutions to difficult social or environmental problems.

We make an industrial strength monorail--it's going to be wider than existing ones anyway because it the endless "tray" that holds the solar collection cells. And it won't be raining everywhere along the system at once--meanwhile batteries take up the slack.

Earthquakes? Landslides? Adjustable piers for the monorail through dicy areas like the Eel River canyon--or have you considered that a monorail can go another way? We aren't talking ugly--we are talking beautiful. Even the piers do double duty, vine-covered homes for all sorts of birds and animals. Concrete for the piers and the monorail is going to be a less volume than what we have poured into our highway systems by a significant factor, that I can guarantee without being an engineer. Think of all that asphalt burning into the sky ask well draining off the roads into the rivers. Concrete doesn't pollute unless someone pulverizes it with thermal demolition devices similar to the ones used to bring down the WTC center buildings and Building 7.
 

I used to read science fiction for innovative futuristic ideas and sinister plots. Now I read Stephen.
 

You wait. People will be reading Stephen's Old and New Testament instead of their Bibles, Qurans and Talmuds.
 

Rejoice!
 

No, don't read Joyce. Read Stephen.
 

Amen! :)
 

Still waiting mike.

Stephen, I did a little googlng on monorails, and posted the results/thoughts/questions on my blog.
 

For what?
 

Oh I know... the rail to return.
 

capdimont, what's your blog address?
 

Capdiamont's at
http://capdiamont.wordpress.com/
 

Cute mike, I'm waiting for your "realistic" vision, on the time line of getting the trail going, rail banking VS rail and trail. Somehow you keep avoiding the answer. Probably because your vision isn't realistic.
 

You know mike answering yourself, isn't a good sign. Next time I'm working at mental health, want me to see if you can be admitted?
 

I checked out your blog monorail post, cap. I know I'm talking future transportation development but when do we start? I mean, if you really added up all the costs there are in establishing and maintaining our present major transportation highways, they would stagger the imagination. I know of one little spot driving out the Briceland-Shelter Cove Road that moves constantly forcing Cal-Trans to fix it. I would bet that one little spot has cost tax-payers over a half-million dollars by now to repair for the last 32 years I've been here in Humboldt County.

Get the transportation movement off the moving ground and free it for wildlife and other uses.

We have to start thinking seriously about alternative transportation. Cars need to be re-thought so that those using them for hot-rodding are directed to race tracks, with the aim of getting back to a quieter, less obtrusive technology.

You go to cities and you find out quickly they are designed for car movement, not for human beings. And because human beings are increasing in number every year, the roads for cars are alway inadequate, needing repairs constantly, slowing down the movement of cars--a stupid, vicious circle.

I am in favor of not only bicycles but horse and other animal pulled stagecoaches and tourist wagons.

I want to see Humbugs, electric or hydrogen fuel cell driven 6-wheel drives vehicles with nerf tires that can run over the snakes and millipedes on the dirt roads without hurting them. In fact, they may not need roads at all but can climb right up the hills without hurting the vegetation.
 

Stephen wrote, "Get the transportation movement off the moving ground and free it for wildlife and other uses.".

Steve...a monorail would still need to have support on the ground beneath its rail. Might give more room for wildlife but its support would still be subject to landslides and earthquakes, just like rail and highways.
 

This post has been removed by the author.
 

Mike, why do you feel a need to put down my contribution? It's ideas, man, and it's you who are trying to kill this thread by attempting to censor pro-rail comment like mine.

Grow up and start helping your community instead of bad-mouthing contributors.
 

Fred, does Japan have monorails? Does Japan have earthquakes? Does Japan still build high-rise buildings? How do they do it? Technology.

Monorail concrete support piers can be made adjustable where the rail attaches at the top in places where there's significant ground movement.

What happened to American know-how and "Get 'er done" attitude? Someone teach it all away around here?
 

I want to help put together a Rail-Bike Contest. I will put $100.00 american, towards the prise money, and all of my time and effort in to it. You have had heard of or maybe even seen Bicycles that are made to ride on rail road tracks. There will be a compitition and rules to win, in order to draw interest. I believe that this will help generate simpathy for opening up the tracks. I believe that humboldt county culture is the sort that would love to ride the rails on people power. Please tell me what you think. thomassavino@hotmail.com
 

I want to help put together a Rail-Bike Contest. I will put $100.00 american, towards the prise money, and all of my time and effort in to it. You have had heard of or maybe even seen Bicycles that are made to ride on rail road tracks. There will be a compitition and rules to win, in order to draw interest. I believe that this will help generate simpathy for opening up the tracks. I believe that humboldt county culture is the sort that would love to ride the rails on people power. Please tell me what you think. thomassavino@hotmail.com
 

I think that I should have previewed & spell checked it before publishing it.