Saturday, March 15, 2008

 

So is Obama toast?

I'm on my mother-in-law's old very slow computer, and I'm hogging the phone line. I saw his interviews last night, and I don't think he handled it well. Does anybody really believe he never heard about Rev. Wright's 911 or "God Damn America" comments? The only way it could possibly be true is if he didn't really attend church very often, which means his level of faith might be a pretense. Or, maybe Rev. Wright really has a sweet side and these were just off days.

Obama would have done better to say something like, "most of the time he's a caring and compassionate minister, but sometimes he gets carried away and I can't support him when he talks like this." It wouldn't be enough for some people, but it would be for most.

I do have to note yet another media double standard however. In two days the television audiences have seen more of Rev. Wright's preaching than they saw of Huckabee's during his 14 months of campaigning.

On the up side for Obama, at least this will put to rest the whole Muslim e-mail thing. But he'd better ditch his advisers and come clean as to precisely what he's gotten out of this church in 20 years and why he continued to allow Wright to be associated with the campaign even after he heard about these comments.

Comments:
Eric,
If Huckabee lasted long enough to become the presumptive nominee you can damn well bet he'd get skewered by the mediots just like Obama is.
 
Except no one is skewering McCain for Hagee. Double standard?
 
Attacking Wright for what he said without debating the truth or fallacy of what he said is spin. You may not like to hear that the US kills innocent people but we do. We support brutal dictators and train death squads. That might not be a good message for a presidential candidate to be associated with, but preachers are supposed to tell the truth, not sugar coat everything with blind patriotism.
 
What did Wright say that was incorrect?
 
Nothing that I heard, Mresquan. I am surprised at Eric's lack of depth here.
 
He's still hoping for Hillary..
 
"So is Obama toast?"

Hey! That sounds like a racial slur.

Defend yourself, Eric, this is a serious charge.
 
The media can turn a cordial disagreement into a momentous war of words. They can turn an enthusiastic speech into a rant. They can turn a Christian into a Muslim. They can turn a casual acquaintance into an ally. They can turn a winner into a loser, then back again.

We as Americans, need to stop listening to what the talking head media says, and more what the candidate say’s. We need to start using our heads and hearts. We need to get back to the sticks and stones parable.
 
Obama is making a mistake distancing himself from him,and is in a sense making a case that he's just another neocon shill by doing so.
 
this already seems to be a dying issue, except maybe on fox news. the pastor resign, obama distanced himself... and many americans agree with the pastor anyway.

it's like the spitzer deal... the guy resigned right away so that the issue would die.
 
I've never heard Rev. Wright's 911 or "God Damn America" comments. I don't have a clue who the man is.
 
How about Jack Welch? Do you know who he is?
 
I thought it was an Obamanation.
 
Jon Taplin posted a sharp comparison between the speeches of Wright and of Martin Luther King.

http://jtaplin.wordpress.com/2008/03/14/wtf-rev-wright/
 
Thanks, Kym. Excellent points made.
 
It's not about the pastor. If Obama's THEOLOGY is seen for what it is the election is lost. See:
http://miraclesdaily.blogspot.com/
 
I get it. Obama is brown skinned. Toast in brown. Not funny. Not remotely funny.
 
No, Eric, the issue is that up until the video of the outrageous stuff the pastor says, Obama called him his spiritual advisor and mentor... NOW he's backpedaling and distancing, and, oh, ummm, well, no if I had heard him say THAT ummm, I wouldn't have, ummmm.. then you combine that with his wife saying this is the first time she has ever been proud of the US - yet they have had the best of everything, education, wealth, a nice home, elected to the Senate, all proof of the goodness OF this country.... if they and thier pastor can't see that, and they think he's a mentor - oh well, they need a little more education, I guess.
 
I listened to Obama talking about this with Keith Olberman last night and thought he did well. I liked it that he disavowed some of the rant while still maintaining his connection to the guy.
And I liked the pastor's rant myself; I thought it was right on.
He's a social justice pastor of the previous generation. More power to him.
 
Wow, you sure do write like a know-it-all Eric. Take a chill pill and get off your high horse. You must be a hard man to stay married to.
 
so rose, i guess bush and cheney are your spiritual advisers right?
 
Someone Obama once knew has said some bad things. Why is these even being discussed? It could have been his own father and it would still be irrelevant.
 
"a Christian prophet"??? Somebody trying to horn in on my territory.. again? Jeez..

Well I hope it isn't my Christian SoHum fan who wanted me to take the 2nd District for God and country because the link given by a Christian prophet goes to your typical Republican Christian who never seems to have read the words of Jesus Christ or the New Testament. For example this lapse of cognition from the blogsite:

"Obama's agenda is the forcible redistribution of wealth. His "Liberation Theology" uses Christian terminology to justify the old communist slogan: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." This is the philosophy of a bloodsucker, not of free men and women exchanging values in a free society."

Alas, the "bloodsuckers were the very first followers of Jesus who Luke wrote of in Acts 2:44, "Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need."

..leave it to dirty commie Christians to set Marx on his path..with guns this time since he didn't believe all you need is love, love, love..

and boy was Marx right. We wouldn't be living here in our glorious scientific socialist People's of America were it not for Marx's genius.

No, I jest of course. Ours is a Christian nation, founded by Christian leaders and lead by a Born-Again Christian leading us as to war with the cross of Jesus going on before..

Jeezus, I can't win here..
 
He's burnt toast now.
 
He's damned.
 
Obama garners unrelenting media attention because his minister says critical things about the US.

McCain's support for a war that has killed nearly 4,000 Americans, killed many more thousands of Iraqis, and maimed an uncountable number is accepted uncritically. So-called Democrat Hillary Clinton cuts attack ads supporting McCain over Obama. George "W" Bush's impeachable offenses against the American people are ignored.

It gets hard to play the game of representative democracy in America. At this point Obama is the only thing that gives me hope in this election.
 
At this point BO is smelling pretty bad.
 
Obama looks like just another wing-nut to me now.
 
We truly are a police state when people are guilty by association. Shame on every one of you.
 
It's bad enough that we put words in someone else's mouth that they didn't say, Now we are putting someone else's words in someone else's mouth.

How the heck do we get out of this rabbit hole, and get back to what a person really say's.

As predicted, the democrats are starting their, oh so predictable, self destruction that they always do. Why is that?
 
Because they like to loose and complain about it. It's the only role they know.
 
Toast? What a disgusting racial slur.
 
Trouble with media:
It consists of too many millionaire celebrities as opposed to actual news reporters or journalists. They all like Bush's 5 tax cuts,(but won't say say publicly). McCain, who was opposed to those tax cuts when Bush proposed them, now favors them. Dems want to abolish them for the wealthiest; which now includes, those mega-millionaire media personalities!

Need any other reason to figure out why McCain gets a free pass?
 
Obama's pride and arrogance is doing him in. He should have distanced himself from this nut-job 20 years ago!
 
Check the IPs. I bet the bulk of the guilt-by-association messages are coming from out-of-county, or Heraldo.
 
People have many reasons for the church they belong to, not just because they like the pastor. Most go to their denomination closest to them. The other members are who make up the congregation and the fellowship is equally important to the pastor.

As to Wright's message, what did he say that wasn't true? The US does kill innocent people. We are still a country where people of color are primarily second class citizens.

I really doubt that the people posting their anti-Obama crap here were ever his supporters, believers in social justice, or give a damn about people in other countries. They certainly don't understand that truly religious people are Godly first, Americans second.
 
truly religious people are Godly first, Americans second.

That's the crux of so many of our problems right there --'Godly' and 'truly religious' people.
 
So the Obama haters believe that church attendance requires you to believe everything that is believed by the pastors of the church? No one except a radical extremist would hold someone to that standard.

Are these pundits insane, or closeted racists?
 
Guilt by association? Hello?! You don't belong to an organization for 20years if you don't like what the head of that organization is saying.
 
Yeah, guilt by association is false. You don't convict someone for guilt by association unless you're evil.
 
12:56, so do you believe life-long Catholics believe and follow everything the Pope says? You're full of BS. NO ONE is held to the standard Obama is being held to. This is a racist political hit, plain and simple.
 
So now we see that the source of Obama's idealism turns out to be a angry little man with a hate America rant.
 
These Obama bashers are Clinton campaign workers.

I suppose Hilary got her idealism from Goldwater.
 
Yep, I'd appreciate it if the out-of-towners would stop bashing Obama. Your little whistle stop tour fell flat on its ass in Eureka. If making old women and children wait in line for six hours without restrooms is your idea of funny, we could do without your candidate being president.
 
By the same line of reasoning, all Catholics are child molesters. Damn, I almost voted for one of them once. I'm sure glad that the candidates are quick to say they belong to a church. It sure helps you vote right.
 
I think most people 'outside' America also agree with pastor 'whathisface' and came to those kinds of conclusions a long time ago - as far as 'leader/preacher' in social conscious or whatever, he is nothing outside the square.
What's the problem?

Maybe too many American's are self absorbed, over protected and have little idea of 'reality' ?

Obama? You mean the messiah? I don't like the idea of him having his digit on any button! He'd make a great little TV presenter.
 
The desperation to take this guy (Obama) out now, is stunning. Do some people honestly think that an individual should be held directly to account for what a friend or associate says? I mean, you have got to be kidding me! Lets face it folks, we ALL have that long time buddy and or family member who has said (or continues to say) some very over the top shit. Does that really mean that we are supposed to take complete responsibility for that persons statements as if they were our very own? I mean, you are kidding, right?

Sadly, no. There are some (present anti-Obama posters on this very thread included) that evidently think so. I love the one about; "but he (Obama) called him his spiritual advisor/mentor...." "He's been going to Wrights church for 20 years...." "Wright presided over his marriage and Baptized his kids....." Yeah, so what? That said, I don't agree with everything that Wright said. But by the same extension, do some of you folks out there disown your own relatives for some of the asinine batshit crazy things that they have said over the course of your relationship with them? Didn't think so. I guess using that same twisted logic, then I suspect that our wingnut friends who think that this trashing of Obama is fair game MUST also be going after McCain for his "spiritual advisors" John Hagee and Rod Parsley, right? No? Why the hell not? I mean, you folks must certainly be aware of the crazy ass shit that these two have been saying for years? Perhaps not. I guess the supposed "liberal mainstream media" just hasn't had the stomach to call out St. John McCain for His religous advisor's comments. How quaint.

I think what IS telling though, is the fact that Mccain himself wants no part of this current Obama "preachergate" crap. Poor little shit stirring Sean Hannity, in a recent Hannity and Colmes segment, just couldn't seem to get Johnny to take the Obama preacher bashing bait. Not that he didn't try his ass off, but Mccain just wouldn't go for it. Why? Could it be that he is just trying to be the elder "straight talking maverick" above the frey? Uhm, no. Because old Johnny knows that to jump on the reverend Wright bash-o-rama that is going on right now will ultimately lead to him having to answer for Hagee and Parsley's creepy end-times/rapture infused, anti-Muslim, Catholic hating, gay bashing rhetoric. At least, at this point, it seems that his hypocracy has some boundries. Can't say the same for his right wing brethren. Pretty pathetic. You folks are grasping at straws. I'm all for debating the actual issues and where each candidate stands, but this guilt by association shit is beyond stupid!
 
The world is a different place once you stop watching the CNN/MSNBC/Fox propaganda machine. Give it a try. You then read the same news stories online without the rhetoric and you suddenly realize the whole world has swallowed the Kool-Aid.
 
Well Eric, you can see how fanatical some of your readers are. The issue is not whether the good reverend Wright esposes opinions that many on the far left share, the issue is now that the cat is out of the bag as to just how far out in left field Obama is does he still have a chance at the presidency?

The answer is an unequivocal no.

But the left should take heart. This is the farthest that someone this far on the ultra left has gotten in American politics. It shows that we are close to such a person getting elected and, sad to say, the end of Amercan greatness which is exactly what the left wants.

The good thing is that Obama is not getting knocked out for any reason other than, via the words of his "preacher," moderate Americans can now see what Obama really stands for after the facade is removed.

God bless the good reverned Wright. He has inadvertently helped save America from the exact type of president he has been praying for. But to whom does he pray - Lenin, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro or God?
 
You have overdosed on Savage Nation 6:55. Step away from the radio and call 911.
 
What an insightful analysis anon 7:17. I bet your IQ is a little higher than the nighttime southern Humboldt ambient temperature.
 
You have to admit your entire spiel was lifted from Savage Nation, 6:55/7:20. I listened to it too and laughed my ass off. You obviously took notes.
 
Sun Mar 16, 06:55:00 PM so, you say that if obama is elected,america would no longer be great?where have you been for the last 30 years?this country has been sold,hook,line and sinker,,,
 
I know one of my proudest moments as a goddam American, was when another goddam black American, in a position of authority, and in the name of our country - which is you and me, bro - gave that spectacular power-point presentation of bull puckie before the United Nations. You know, the rest of the world! It was a callous and calculating attempt to justify invading another nation, which hadn't done a goddam thing to us. He fooled no one but some of us and shamed us all in the bargain. Why did he do that; Loyalty? Patriotism? Honor? Integrity? What?

I think I know what Rev. Wright might be talking about, goddamit.
 
Only someone so blinded by the right, like 6:55, would think that Barack Obama to be the "far left's" ideal candidate that shares "their" vision. Really dude, you need to lay off the wingnut koolaid. The vast majority of ultra lefty's that I know did not consider Obama to be their first choice for president. Not even close. That said though, they are much more apt to pull the lever for him over right winger McCain or Republican lite Clinton. And as a moderate Democrat myself, I have to agree with them. And I hate to break it to 6:55, but the majority of Americans don't share his/her veiw of "American greatness". And no, that does not mean that we "hate America". Quite the opposite. America is broken. Broken badly. And staying the course that we as a country have been on for the last 30 plus years is not going to get it done. Huge change is in order, and most of us understand this.
 
Clinton carpetbaggers, please leave our Humboldt blog alone. You're as bad as the scientologists.
 
I don't have a television so I was appalled to see the time being given to the fiery reverend when I visited a friend last night. Big trouble for Obama. This is his Willie Horton. The Dem power folks can see this going through the entire election. I'm sure they are reconsidering Obama. I'm crazy about the guy but I can see that Hil has a better chance against McCain.
 
About the only thing that McCain could do to lose now is fall off a bridge.
 
With both McCain and Obama exposed for drinking the Krazy Khristian Koolaid the only sane candidate left is Hillary.
 
McCain could be toast too the day he releases his medical records.
 
No Obama for me.

sincerely,
Very Blue and very troubled over this.
 
I've switched to Hill.
 
Go Hilldog!
 
Well this blog sure has become a waste of space and time. Between Eric's self-important rantings and the obvious retardation of the posters, there is nothing left here.
 
Posting repeatedly about your supposed conversion to Clinton doesn't fool anyone. But go ahead, this thread is dead anyway.
 
Anon 10:07 do not worry about Obama being a Christian. He is no Christian. He is just pulling a page from Nicolo Machiavelli and pretending to be one in order to try and get elected. However, Reverend Wright has assured that the Obamination will never be president of the U.S. However, he might win in Europe.
 
Anon 7:43, how could I lift anything from a radio program I never listen too? Perhaps great minds just think alike.
 
Yeah, you gotta love the breathless media coverage on this one. If anyone needed proof that the rightwing is scared s%#tless of Barack Obama in the general election, look no farther than the infatuation with this story. They are not gonna let this one go. Because they think it is Obama's "dean scream" moment. Problem is, their boy McCain has got his own idiot pastor problems hanging out just below the surface. If the right wing thinks that this doesn't end up exposing McCains religious campaign buddies bigoted statements, then they are more deluded than anybody previously imagined. That is a fight that the McCain compaign doesn't want. Anybody notice how absent they have been from this trumpt up "scandle"? There is no way they want the inevitable comparison going into the fall.

Thruthfully, the only ones crowing the loudest about this are the Fox News nutjobs and some Hillary supporters. Not the Clinton campaign mind you. They don't need anymore focus on Obama (good or bad) at their expense. The more the MSM follows him, the less they cover her. And right now, she really NEEDS the media not to forget about her. The time left in this contest is not on her side.

Besides, Hillary isn't without her own baggage from the past. And most people can remember to a not so distant past when The right wing attack machine had the Clinton's for breakfast, lunch, and dinner on a daily basis. Lets not forget, the GOP is praying to run against Hillary in the general. They are confident that they can take her in November. They have bet the farm on it. Obama is the "spoiler" to them.
 
Obama is not going to spoil anything anymore. He is done as far as any chance at the presidency.
 
Everything is going according to plan. Jeb Bush will be president in less than 18 months.
 
Couldn't agree more 1:35. Obama can beat McCain handily, not so sure about Clinton. But the rightwing would prefer her as president to Obama because she is owned by the same corporations that own McCain.
 
You must be insane to think the American people would vote for any ticket with a Bush on it. LOL
 
OH PLEASE put Jeb on the ticket. PLEEEEZE!!
 
The question now that Obama's out (anybody can see that Rev. Wright is completely off his rocker) is who will Hillary pick for vp?
 
Hilary will be begging Obama for the VP spot. But she won't get it. Edwards would be a great choice.
 
Where have you been for the last several days, asleep? Obama's dead in the water.
 
If Huckabee lasted long enough to become the presumptive nominee you can damn well bet he'd get skewered by the mediots just like Obama is.

Maybe, but some of his sermons were as scary as Wright's, and he was the candidate, not merely a surrogate.
 
It's true that Obama's out of it, that's a no brainer at this point, but I don't think that necessarily means Clinton has clinched the nom. I still think Gore may be our guy after the dust settles. Maybe with Hillary as VP.
 
What did Wright say that was incorrect?

Well, aside from suggesting a lyrics change to "God Damn America" and accusing the US government of engineering AIDS in order to commit genocide against black people, he apparently never bothered to read the Autobiography of Malcolm X and used the exact same words in response to 911 which X used in response to the Kennedy assassination: "the chickens have come home to roost." Even Elijah Mohamed thought it was over the top.
 
I don't trust Obama any more than I trust Wright. They both have that crazed look in their eye.
 
I don't trust Obama any more than I trust Wright. They both have that crazed look in their eye.

You mean they're both black and that scares you.

Unfortunately, you're not alone.
 
Chickens coming home to roost wasn't written by Malcolm X either. It is an old folk saying that many people use to describe getting your just desserts.
 
It is entirely possible that the HIV epidemic in Africa was engineered by someone. The patterns of infection don't fit any natural epidemic pattern and (coincidentally) started in areas where vaccinations were being carried out. It is of course possible that it was shoddy health care delivery using dirty needles over and over.
 
No, Eric, the issue is that up until the video of the outrageous stuff the pastor says, Obama called him his spiritual advisor and mentor... NOW he's backpedaling and distancing, and, oh, ummm, well, no if I had heard him say THAT ummm, I wouldn't have, ummmm.. then you combine that with his wife saying this is the first time she has ever been proud of the US - yet they have had the best of everything, education, wealth, a nice home, elected to the Senate, all proof of the goodness OF this country.... if they and thier pastor can't see that, and they think he's a mentor - oh well, they need a little more education, I guess.

Well Rose, with all due respect, white American cluelessness as to why so many black Americans are angry even when they "have it so good" remains one of the many issues that continue to polarize this country along racial lines.

Obama isn't backpedaling as far as I can tell. The comments are way out of line. But the new pastor of the church gave an interview on CNN the other night and although I thought he was a little too cocky for my comfort he did raise an excellent point about the videos in that shown as they have been on the news over and over again they have effectively reduced a 30 year career into 30 seconds of white suburnite cringing clips out of context.

I initially thought Obama's campaign was over, but the rally I saw televised from Indiana was just as large and just as enthusiastic as all the others, despite some awkwardness when the topic at hand came up. Fortunately for Obama he has some breathing room in a lull in the primaries and he has over a month to reestablish a narrative.

I suspect what he's going to do is wait for the initial white American shock to subside. He'll then go onto Larry King or some other softball pitcher who'll ask him, "what did you ever see in Rev. Wright anyway?"

Obama will talk about his work in the South Side, and about how his work drew him into the church which had done so much for the community. He'll talk about how Wright drew people away from gangs, crime, drugs, and even against random anger. He'll talk about how Wright has plugged the value of education in a subculture which views education as something for white people and wimps. He'll talk about how Wright's church has clothed, fed, and sheltered tens of thousands of people over the years, and initiated the creation of clinics, tutoring centers and other community development. And he'll talk details about his own introduction to scripture and Jesus Christ.

Wright's comments as revealed so far appear to have been limited to the last few years. I will take Obama at his word that while the sermons have made him uncomfortable on occasion, that he never heard comments quite on par with these. If he had, I suspect he would have been much more ready for this moment, if he bothered to run at all. If this is the case, it suggests a man (Rev. Wright) who has been a passionate community activist as well as spiritual leader who has seen his community devastated by forces which can be attributed to racism and others which cannot be so - at least not rationally. Anger in this context is often the product of frustration when you don't see progress, and he may have actually witnessed regression despite his extremely hard work to improve his community. His sermons were an inappropriate release. We'll probably learn more about this if any reporter is ever allowed near Wright.

Most people on the south side of Chicago don't have it so good. And both Obama and Wright have worked extremely hard to change that for decades. One is hopeful, the other is frustrated. To borrow from a recent movie, pray the first one remains hopeful.
 
So what has really changed after all of this? Black folks feel stronger than ever about a Obama presidency, and white racist knuckle dragging nutjobs are STILL not going to vote for Barack. Just like last week, last month, last year, and so on. Did anybody really think that the Hannity listening, Fox watching crowd was actually going to warm up to him with or without the "Wright" revelation?
 
You mean they're both black and that scares you.

No. As usual you build your little straw man. I didn't mention black at all, you did, that's your issue. I said crazed ie --they're narcissistic, self important, grandiose, etc. you get the picture yet? They are both imho Christian screwballs with that crazy "God's talking to me and so I know that I am right" look. --get it? Of course you do, so please --quit putting words in peoples mouths, building straw-men, and spitting out your stereotype PC opinions when they don't apply.
 
Eric.. It's not supporters that will have the Dems worried, it's voters. There's a big difference. Fortunately we have a few primaries left to test the waters.
 
I guess it's time to step in and reestablish the fact that Obama cannot be beaten. He will rise even higher through this race issue as he is the genuine article whereas Hillary is toast--coming apart at the seams of her costume because it she who is out of her league--and now America will know it for sure.
 
He is backpedaling. But what's really a shame is that he and his wife do appear to believe this preachers rant - even though they live a great life, in a nicer place than most of us, went to schools many people, including white people can't afford - they are LIVING PROOF of the goodness of this country and the opportunity it represents - he represented the best America offered, including the exact opposite of racism as we all turned out for his rallies, and didn't care a whit about his race - now he shows that all of that was false.

That's the problem.

He and his wife not being proud of this country - that's the problem, it's fine for various anons and people we all know to feel that way, it's a whole different thing if you aspire to be the president - you better recognize what this country is and represents, what the value of freedom is, what an amazing thing the Constitution is, and BE PROUD of it and GRATEFUL every day to live here.

Pure and simple.
 
All of these rightwingers weighing in on Obama as if they think anyone would believe they would ever have voted for him. Rich!
 
Thank you Rose. That was very eloquent. You seem to be one of the few here that sees the situation clearly.
 
Oh, like Rose was going to vote for Obama until this happened, right?

And I like the comment ben made comparing this to the Willie Horton episode.

Try googling Willie Horton, ben. You'll find that he never went by that name until Bush I's, Lee Atwater, tagged him "Willie" so it would be more racially derisive. And it worked because people, probably just like you, bought it.
 
And once again, we see that Rose wants to see what she wants to see. No matter what. Obama couldn't win over the likes of Rose, or any hardcore coservative for that matter, anymore than any Democratic candidate could (Black or white). She acts like she knows what it is to grow up in the black community in this country by some of her comments. She thinks that she knows that Barack and his wife have had it good, so they shouldn't whine (even though Obama himself didn't make the comments at the center of this "controversy"). They should be "proud" to live in this country. And she knows that they are not "proud" of the US precisely how? Exactly, she doesn't. She knows no more about their proudest or not so proud feelings towards this country anymore than they know about hers. But the difference between the Obama's and Rose, is they want to try and bring change to this country that EVERYBODY can be proud of. Regardless of race or class. That's change that some folks, perhaps Rose, don't want to see. Some of those people think that things are just fine the way they are. Well, fortunately, the majority of Americans (including the Obama's) think that we can and must do better.

The thing is, Obama has not "backpeddled" from any of this. And why should he? Why should he banish a guy like Wright? Because 30 seconds of sound clips exist that only show the most outrageous content of a more than 30 year career as a pastor? Do conservatives like Rose really think they know first hand the American experience through the eyes of someone like reverend Wright? I can tell you as a white American, I have NO IDEA what it means to grow up in the United States as a black person. Certainly not a black person that came of age during the civil rights movement like Wright did. And you know what? I NEVER will.

You see, folks like Rose may WANT to beleive that America is the greatest place in the world to grow-up and live in, but that does not make it so. This country has made a lot of progress, but it is far from a "GREAT" place to live for a growing number of people; from every race. Wright wasn't completely correct about America with his comments that have been played to death recently, but he was far from wrong either. Could he have said some of those things with a little less fire and brimstone? sure. But why? So he could make non black people feel better about some of this country's biggest issues that it has faced in the past and continues to face today? Perhaps, but some times the "truth hurts" as the old saying goes.

Obama has said that he does not agree with some of Wright's assertions. But, at the same time, he is not willing to throw him overboard either. And he should not. Afterall, are we hearing bigots like Sean Hannity demand that McCain abandon the likes of Rod Parsely and John Hagee in the same way he expects Obama to do it with reverend Wright? Did he,or any other conservative for that matter, expect George Bush to distance himself from the likes of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson after their over the top comments about topics such as 911 and Katrina?. Not hardly. Afterall, ALL of these guys have said some outrageous and hateful things towards different segments of our population more than once. Can you say, HYPOCRACY!


Not so pure, and not so simple
 
Sorry 10:38 but your argument is full of holes. 1. They are obviously NOT proud Americans. 2. He is NOT a black American --try half black. 3. America may NOT be perfect but it's a DAMNED sight better than any other country you can come up with; and if you beg to differ than move the Hell out of here and good riddance. 4. You're full of hot air -- name ONE THING that you've actually done -no save your breath we already know the answer to that one. 5. I could go on and on but I've made my point ie you're an idiot.
 
I tell you my fellow Americans it is time to revolt against the ultra left. They are hostile to America and its values and they are destroying us. They are a far more insidious threat than even the most ruthless terrorist organizations. They are deastroying us from within. They are the new Hitler. They espouse their hate now but will eventually advance their venemous words to violent action. Darwinism, socialism, and global warming are their religion. It is utterly amazing that there is any American that could support a racist charlatan like the reverend Wright and his phony protoge Barack Obamination.
 
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Obama called us to our better selves today. Never mind that! Here's the latest new outrage from Obama's pastor! FOX News, CNN, MSNBC are all about to start playing new secret footage of Rev. Wright screaming:

If you lust after any woman grab a knife and gouge out your right eye and throw it in the trash. And if you're going to use your hand for masturbation cut it off or you're going to hell. I haven't come here to make peace but to bring war. I'm here to set a man against and his father and a daughter against her mother and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me and who doesn't want to get killed for me is damned. You mess with my people and you'll wish you'd hanged a stone around your neck and drowned yourself before I'm done with you!

Except, Obama's pastor didn't say any of that -- Jesus did.

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So I guess all Christians must be disqualified from running for president. How can we trust any candidate that follows a violent Jewish-supremacist like Jesus? He called a woman of another race a dog just for talking to him! He said his enemies would all burn in a lake of fire...

There may be a few secularists out there who have never been to old-time church but the rest of us know that hyperbole, overstatement and ranting and raving (from the left or right) is a time honored style of preaching in just about every denomination -- other than in particularly boring Unitarian churches.

Religious biblical overstatement started with Jesus, actually with God the Father, who tended to do things like kill the whole of humankind to make a point to Noah. Most churchgoing Christians know how to take this stuff in the Bible, or from our preachers. That's why most Christians don't lop off their arms and penises when they feel lust. That's why even though Jesus said he only came to save Jews some of us "filthy dogs" (as Jesus called non-Jews) still believe in him. That is why reasonable people of good will who hear a black (or white) pastor saying "God damn America" in the context of a moralistic tirade know they're watching theater.

But fair is fair. So where are the clips of me in Falwell's pulpit (back in the early 1980s before I dropped out of the evangelical movement) preaching to five thousand cheering white fundamentalists while I shouted; "God hates America for the murder of the unborn! We should be destroyed!"

When my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- and I were the guests of Jerry Falwell at Liberty Baptist College, Falwell said to us quite casually and seriously, while speaking of the "homosexual problem," that: "If I had a dog that did what they do I take it out and shoot it." And when it came to saying God was damning America he and Pat Robertson sided with the 9/11 hijackers by saying the terrorist's actions served America right and were God's punishment. Yet John McCain went to Liberty Baptist College and spoke for Falwell, in order to "mend fences" with the Religious Right. He said he no longer believed that Falwell was "an agent of intolerance." And Rudy Giuliani gladly accepted Robertson's endorsement. So much for the Republican "mainstream."

Fair is fair. So where are the clips -- playing incessantly next to Hillary Clinton's picture -- of her antiwar friends and Bill Clinton's fellow draft dodger members of the New Left, cursing and damning America during Vietnam War protests and since? The company that Bill and Hillary kept in the late 1960s through the 1970s was defined by damning America and sometimes by rooting for the North Vietnamese. Anti-American spewing also came from left wing white preachers. Read the fiery sermons of the late Episcopal bishop of New York Paul Moore, Jr. who raged against America.

Bishop Moore, in his 1997 autobiography, Presences: A Bishop's Life in the City, wrote that the end of the Cold War had left the United States "like a wounded rooster crowing on the top of the dung heap." Blaming "corporate greed and lust" as well as "unbridled nationalism" for manufacturing causes for war, Moore cursed America as often as he served communion.

McCain is an Episcopalian. Where are the clips of the anti-American rantings of Bishop Moore and not a few other Episcopalian pastors and bishops, next to McCain's picture?

Want to play this smear-by-association game? Okay, while McCain was a prisoner of war his bishop Moore was rooting for McCain's torturers. How can McCain be a member of that denomination and be a real American, let alone commander in chief? Isn't it time he explains his anti-American white associations? Isn't it time McCain gives a speech to explain what it means to be a white in bed with hate-America white liberals..?

Okay, I'm being sarcastic, this is silly. And that's the point. From the other guy's point of view all religion and politics is extreme.

Preaching is a style of communication with its own cadences that is easy to mock and/or twist-by-sound-bite. The Clinton's smear machine, now tied to the FOX smear-machine, is playing a very dirty game. And the Clinton's know better.

As I recall both Clintons have been in plenty of black churches and understand the preaching style. If the Clintons were authentic progressives, or even authentic patriots, or just ordinary decent Americans, or just members of the Democratic Party who wanted their party to win in November, they would have led a furious defense of Obama and his pastor by putting things in perspective.

If the Clintons were decent people Obama would never have had to give a speech on being black and being a presidential candidate, let alone explain his pastor. The Clintons would have stepped up for him. And if FOX News, MSNBC, CNN et al. weren't playing a filthy game for ratings this wouldn't be a story.

As Obama said in his March 18, speech:

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination -- and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past -- are real and must be addressed.



Part of that discrimination that needs addressing is to stop playing the sorts of games that have been played by the white Republicans and the Clintons.

As Jesus said to the Pharisees: "Ye hypocrites!"

Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of "CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It
 
All of you crazy ranting Obama supporters rave on! We love listening to you destroy his hopes.
 
Clearly, anons. 11:26 and 11:35 couldn't find a fact based or cognitive argument to debate with if their lives depended upon it. So, they try and smear those that they disagree with using ignorant empty based rants.

Lucky for real Americans who actually want to move forward, the likes of the 11:26 and 11:35 crowd are a dying breed. The scary part for them, is they know it and can't believe it.
 
At this point B.O. is smelling pretty bad.
 
So, anon 11:35, are you going to lead this revolt against the far left?
Are you actually going to tear yourself away from your keyboard, get out of your pajamas, put on some clean underwear, wipe the cheese doodle dust from your mouth and fingers, and waddle out the door into the lovely climate we are having and wage war on the left?
And:
You may want to hold up on that assault on the left at least until you finish off those last 3 Hagen Daz mocha almond fudge quarts still in your freezer. Who knows, you may not come back alive from the battle and what a waist that would be.
 
3 quarts of Haagen Daz would certainly increase its waist and anything that good would be a waste on such a scum sucker.
 
11:35 demonstrates the similarity between right wing extremists and Muslim extremists. They both want to kill anyone who disagrees with them. It should know that trying to incite violence is a federal offense and punishable by a long stretch in prison, maybe even GITMO. It would fit in quite well there actually.
 
Rant on lefties. It just makes your case all the weaker when you, lacking any real argument, have to resort to the Hagen Daz line. Keep it up we love watching you and your Obamination crumble.
 
He is backpedaling. But what's really a shame is that he and his wife do appear to believe this preachers rant

And again, on what do you base that that? He said he doesn't share his pastor's politics, and he's explained why in great detail. What does he "appear" to do which makes you believe otherwise?


- even though they live a great life, in a nicer place than most of us, went to schools many people, including white people can't afford - they are LIVING PROOF of the goodness of this country and the opportunity it represents - he represented the best America offered, including the exact opposite of racism as we all turned out for his rallies, and didn't care a whit about his race - now he shows that all of that was false.

So basically, if you're well off you have no right to criticize your country? Bishop Tutu has always been well off. Does that mean he should have been proud of the apartheid system? Should Gorbachev have been proud of the Soviet system for all it offered him personally?

Yes, he has done well. But he's also seen the worst the system has to offer. And unlike his pastor, he's come out of it with a vision of hope to mitigate it.

But it doesn't matter. Wright makes you uncomfortable and Obama won't "disown" him any more than he'll disown his white racist grandmother. Ironic should he be brought down for seeing the best in people.


He and his wife not being proud of this country - that's the problem, it's fine for various anons and people we all know to feel that way, it's a whole different thing if you aspire to be the president - you better recognize what this country is and represents, what the value of freedom is, what an amazing thing the Constitution is, and BE PROUD of it and GRATEFUL every day to live here.

One more piece of irony in that you have the impression that he isn't proud of his country based upon a statement she made in which his wife said she is proud of her country.

This is where the right mirrors some of the more dogmatic elements of the left. It's not enough to express a certain viewpoint. It must be expressed in your own language.

Call it "patriotic correctness."
 
WHAT A DIVIDED NATION,I DONT CARE WHO WINS,WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS THE ISSUES THAT HAVE TAKEN US DOWN THE TUBES
 
I guess it's time to step in and reestablish the fact that Obama cannot be beaten. He will rise even higher through this race issue as he is the genuine article whereas Hillary is toast--coming apart at the seams of her costume because it she who is out of her league--and now America will know it for sure.

He is most likely going to be the nominee, unless the "scandal" gets worse in the eyes of the party leadership and he's pressured to drop his campaign. If he did in fact lie about his non-presence at incendiary sermons and evidence comes out to contradict him, his campaign is over.

And from what I've been watching on cable news and CSPAN, the Clinton campaign is euporic.

Right now, I think McCain's going to be the next president, unless the war worsens and/or the economy tanks even further.
 
The elephant in the room is that Obama, following in the footsteps of his mentor, Wright, is a racist.
 
This preacher deal is scary as it gives a bit of insight towards the true inner workings of Obama and his family. I now have further reservations about his character and intentions.
 
My wife and I are upset right now. We thought we had found someone different...now we realize hes just another typical politician.

Repubs & Dems both suck. We are not voting this year....good luck to the rest of you.
 
NY Times Editorial
Mr. Obama’s Profile in Courage

Published: March 19, 2008
There are moments — increasingly rare in risk-abhorrent modern campaigns — when politicians are called upon to bare their fundamental beliefs. In the best of these moments, the speaker does not just salve the current political wound, but also illuminates larger, troubling issues that the nation is wrestling with.

Read it all here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/opinion/19wed1.html

He will come out of this stronger than ever.
 
i just listened to obamas speech,and i listened with an open mind,what i got from this is he is for america to heal from itz past,he spoke of his love for this country,and he he spoke of the issues,health,two wars,terroism,the economy,so,do we open our minds and move forward,or keep sinking in our ignorance....i am not saying vote for anyone,,just open our minds
 
"Right now, I think McCain's going to be the next president, unless the war worsens and/or the economy tanks even further.

Tue Mar 18, 03:53:00 PM"

Remember this statement of Eric's the next time he acts the political pundit..
 
I guess this is another time to step up to the plate of prophesy as the heavy hitter and predict Obama's WIN as he OVERCOMES this issue with grace and dignity and all those Hillary Democrats realize that if they are playing a race card in order to get their girl in--and that won't set right with most Democrat delegates. Obama will regain the loyalty of the majority of Democratic delegates and become the Democratic nominee for President.

The U.S. hates a bully and Hillary and Bill are going to be seen more and more as just such willing to do anything to get Hillary elected.

So let it be written
So let it be done.
 
It really doesn't matter Steve because 2012 is only four short years away.
 
Steve, a false prophet is one who makes predictions that turn out wrong. If Obamanation looses will you admit that you are not a prophet?
 
Steve, since you have borrowed Yul Brenner's lines from The Ten Commandments, I will borrow Charlton Heston's line: "So let it be written." In other words, it won't be done.
 
Judging by the talk radio coverage on this issue for the las 4 days, I would say he is definately toast. Way done.

HE put this guy front and center in his campaign as his spiritual adviser. The whole stinking mess highlights how racists the black people in our country are. There is no way he could be so tight with this man (he married the Obama's, baptized their children, served as spiritual advisor for his campaign etc) and not be exposed to his rhetoric, some of which is highly disturbing.

There are clips of his preaching - check them out for yourself. Mr.Right was clearly wrong.

http://www.michaelsavage.com/jeramiah-speech.html

http://www.michaelsavage.com/jeramiah-speech-two.html
 
Oh yeah, Michael Savage's callers are the bellweather!
 
Stephen - this isn't Clinton's fault, nor is it McCain's nor even Rove's for that matter. The Church sold the DVDs with the clips on them by online catalogue.

I suspect you want McCain to win which is why you deftly avoid criticism of him. If Clinton was behind it, she would have waited until we were closer to the Pennsylvania primary.
 
Well, obviously this is a test that will separate prophet wannabes from the real deal.

Obama will win the Democratic nomination and the Presidency. Hillary's toast and Repubs can't win. I say it loud and clear as I have all along without a waver from the beginning. That's the confidence of a real prophet.

Eric told us Hillary was going to win. Now he's saying McCain is. Which ever way the winds blow..
 
Speaking of political winds, which way is your boy Clendenen going to bend with the Palco reorganization plans submitted? If he goes with Mendocino Redwood Co., he's looking at bye bye even more jobs at Palco and hello Mr. Katz and Walmart for Palco's Fortuna site as MRC's plan calls for eventually selling everything outside the forests and a small mill operation. MRC seems mostly interested in acquiring PL lands to add to MRC's redwood inventory. Job reduction and another outside corporate owner of Humboldt community land and life and Estelle's backing this plan over Heartlands.
 
Stephen you are not a true prophet, you are just trying to make an educated guess. That is what ego does -guess and fumble and guess again.

I don't guess because I have received information directly from True Source. Jeb Bush will be our president in less than 18 months.

I'm not saying I like it, I am stating Truth.
 
Stephen didn't predict anything until after Iowa, then he rode with the wind, predicting with everybody else that he would win in New Hampshire. Just thought I'd point that out.

Meanwhile, since New Hampshire I've predicted the outcome in every state except Nevada, Texas, Missouri, and Connecticut.

After he blew it in New Hampshire, Stephen has ducked any further prophecies.
 
And by the way, I believe my Texas prediction was thwarted by Limbaugh inspired cross-over voters, so it doesn't count.

Just thought I'd point that out.
 
"Stephen didn't predict anything until after Iowa, then he rode with the wind, predicting with everybody else that he would win in New Hampshire. Just thought I'd point that out."

Just thought I'd point out Eric predicted Clinton would win NH.

"Eric predicts Clinton will
Truth to tell Stephen, while I'm excited about last night's results, I'd still put my money on Clinton. They know how to win elections, and they aren't going to lose their cool.

Fri Jan 04, 12:27:00 PM"

Eric's trying hard to keep his political pundit delusion going but he's out of his depth time and again, e.g. the Clendenen rooter won't tell us if Clif is going to back Mendocino Redwood Co.'s Plan for Palco reorganization like Estelle is or if he's going to back Maxxam's plans.

His silence on our Heartlands plan to recover Bear River's aboriginal territory in the Palco bankruptcy speaks volumes to his potential Native American constituents..
 
His silence on MRC's plan speaks volumes to environmentalists who do not want to see the way MRC has defined "old growth" in ways that have allowed them to cut them down when they wanted to.

His silence on MRC's plan speaks volumes to Palco workers past and present who will be again downsized as MRC reduces the Palco workforce and ships logs down to their Ukiah mill for more efficient processing into boards.

What's happening is that the Fisher family is seeking to hold all the major commercial redwood forest land in California. PL's land would be added to MRC's portfolio and Palco added to the Fisher' portfolio. The GAP between rich and poor, haves and have-nots, will widen just a bit more..
 
http://www.
michaelsavage.com
/jeramiah-speech.html

http://www.
michaelsavage.com
/jeramiah-speech-two.html

Wed Mar 19, 02:33:00 PM
Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Oh yeah, Michael Savage's callers are the bellweather!



I assume you meant bellwhether?

# someone who assumes leadership of a movement or activity
# sheep that leads the herd often wearing a bell
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# A bellwether is any entity in a given arena that serves to create or influence trends or to presage future happenings. ...

Regardless, mr kirk, the links were direct recordings of Mr Wrights incriminating hate speech. It was not michael savage. Why shoot the messenger? Why do you hate Mr. Savage so much?
 
I doubt if Kirk even took the time to look at the clips. He's got his mind made up before hand so why bother. Makes one question if perhaps he isn't racist as well.
 
Eric not only saw the clips but the sermons in their entirety which are available online. Have you bothered?
 
I watched way too much cable news last week. I saw every clip, over and over and over again. I don't think I've seen anything repeated so often in my life.

And yes, CNN provided the entirety of the sermons, which do provide some mitigating context.
 
"Truth to tell Stephen, while I'm excited about last night's results, I'd still put my money on Clinton. They know how to win elections, and they aren't going to lose their cool."

You're so cool, Eric..
 
Yup, I was wrong.

Difference between us - I admit my miscalls. New Hampshire Steven?
 
I should also point out that everytime you, me, and the media have written Hillary Clinton's obituaries, she has roared back. New Hampshire. Super Tuesday. Ohio/Texas.

And while I don't believe she can sway the super delegates in her direction at this point, she hasn't conceded the nomination. The Clintons don't like to lose and we have more primaries coming up.

Will Obama take Pennsylvania Steven? Will he come close?

Thing is, I suspect you really want McCain to win but don't want to admit it right now. You've never uttered so much as a criticism of him, just as you're reluctant to criticize Rodoni despite his failure to support your project.
 
I want McCain to win? What planet are you on, Eric? I can't help it if I'm the real political prophet here who called Obama's spectacular rise before it happened while you were telling us Hillary is it and still are.

Eric, all you need to know is Obama's going to be our next President. Hillary's out unless Obama takes her on as second banana, a spot her ego will never allow.
 
Sure Stephen. You don't want McCain to win. And there are WMDs in Iraq, right?

And hey, I called Obama's rise the same time you did - after it happened.
 
No, you didn't, Eric, thou forked-tongued lawyer. I called Obama's rise while you were plugging for Hillary. But we all know you can't tell the truth when it counters your image of yourself, in this case, the political pundit who isn't..
 
Nope. You called it the day after Iowa. Same as me.
 
Eric, I'd seek medical help if I was you. You just have to watch for those early oldtimers symptoms such as you're displaying in your pathetic efforts to save face.

Iowa caucus was when, Eric? January 3rd, 2008.

Read my December comments below, note the early December dates and try to remember that December 10th, 2007, is almost a month before January 3rd, 2008.

"Obama and Kucinich, my dream team now.

Uh oh, eric and the Zionists are going to have to work hard to smear Obama now to get their Hillary pro-Israel sock puppet into the Oval Office. Even Obama's name has just got too many associations with Islam and Muslims for Israelis to be comfortable that Obama tow the Zionist line like a good boy.

Mon Dec 10, 05:09:00 PM"


"Electing Obama sends a Big Message to the whole non-white world that has needed to be sent for some time now. I know Obama's no radical but he's amazingly electable and now has the huge gun of Oprah on his side. Oprah behind Obama cancels out Hillary's banking on women allying with her.

Mon Dec 10, 07:27:00 PM"
 
Now, will this topic disappear fast into archive land so Eric's blunder won't be seen? Stay tuned..
 
I'm sorry Stephen. I read the posts and I miss where you projected a win in Iowa or anywhere else. Can you point them out to me? Like I'm a 5 year old?
 
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