Friday, June 27, 2008

 

It's over - for now

According to the Eureka Reporter they finished up yesterday and will be leaving Humboldt today.

They did find brownies, but didn't confiscate them.

And they did read the blogs when the information was leaked to Heraldo prior to the busts.

And from the article as well as the TS article it does seem that conspiracy will be the central theme of the prosecutions when they happen. That could mean a lot of people being charged, and I wouldn't be surprised if smaller groups of law enforcement return for follow-up investigations.

Addendum: Thank Jah (audio archive link in the thread) and Heraldo have more information about "Buddhaville," some information more useful than other.

Second addendum: Thanks to a poster in the thread, here's a video clip of one of the convoys.


Comments:
And the specifics weren’t dead-on, Schadler said. “We did spend a lot of time reading the blogs,” he said. “It’s nice to know what people know or what they think they know.”

“If we had been reading the blogs and somebody knew exactly what site we were going to and when, that might have altered the plans,” Schadler said. “Everyone knew there would be a couple hundred agents coming up to the area, but no one knew what and when or whom until Tuesday.”
 
From the Times-Standard.
 
are we surprised? on KMUD someone named 'Charlie" gave and interesting commentary. seems right on. end of an era regarding subdivisions etc. I hope someone captures and prints it somewhere.

And now we have TJIF whinning no doubt, and not dealing with the bigger picture. Amazing.
 
I want to commend Terri on KMUD for having Charlie Custer put things into some sort of context. It was very well done.
 
pleasant surprise, thank jah callers revealing how uncool Buddha is. thank you. ask any one in Salmon Creek
 
Yeah, I'm coming into the conversation late, but it does appear that there is a feeling like "Buddha" and the others are "the other" and not some of us. Talks about running him and his out of town and all.

I think we'd be advised to wait until we have all the facts before making judgments.
 
"I think we'd be advised to wait until we have all the facts before making judgments."

A bit old school of you, isn't it?
 
Let me see if I have this straight: The Buddhaville folks are "the other" because they bought land in Southern Humboldt thinking they'd earn a living growing pot. Doesn't that describe most of the people out in the hills?
 
Well, the commentary went beyond that. You can listen in here.
 
You guys are a bit harsh, eh? I have known many sohummers willing to wait at least ten seconds for facts before coming to a leaping grand conclusion. Time moves slow here. Just don't ask them to wait for twelve.
 
Us us us us us
Them them them them them . . .
 
Go feds!

hopefully, these major operations are over and gone and there will be plenty of prison time for y'all.
 
hopefully, these major operations are over and gone and there will be plenty of prison time for y'all.

Don't count on it.
 
Okay I listened to the Thank Jah show podcast. It is rather bizarre to hear the people on the show flame the Feds for misleading people when the hosts on that show misled people for months on the Reggae debacle. But beyond the hypocrisy it was good to hear people come out and check the hosts to get them to look at the issue more clearly. Thinking that all people are good just because they ride in on green horse and base in southern humboldt probably needs to change.
 
With all the feds and fires it seemed like a good time to put all my plants on drip and get out of the country. At the airport yesterday I struck up a conversation with a guy- I asked where he was from and he said Palestine. "West Bank or Gaza?" I asked. Turns out in 1948 his uncle stayed put on the W B and the family still has 8 acres there, a house and grapes.

I asked him where he was going and he said Jordan and Iraq. He's going to drive truck, like in armed convoys delivering food and etc. He said that he'll make $60,000 for six months, tax-free, room and board included. Naffo, a nice guy.(Then he wants to put a down payment on a house in Modesto.)

On the plane I sat near some fatigue-clad soldiers going home after training in the California desert.
"Are they sending you over there?" I asked.
They were just sweet kids, and even though I HATE that stupid war I felt a surge of emotion and almost a tear in concern for those guys. I thought "good luck" but didn't say it.

Wow, now this is really anonymous- at at an internet cafe in a podunk town in Mexico where tonight I'll have dinner with my possible mail order bride. I'm more than twice her age and it does feel a little silly (my friend says SICK!) but American women obviously aren't into me, sooooooooo...........

Damn my belly is full of cabrito and guacamole.

OK, hang in there you guys and try not to taunt the feds- I don't want them to stick around and get MY plants--DIG?
 
He's (they're) just taking it for the team. All the real big boys are so grateful. For now. BTW; "On his drive to San Francisco, Schadler (FED in charge) said more plants, generators, processed pot and grow houses were found, but he didn’t have specific amounts."
 
one called on KMUD said that the feds outnumbered the plants at buddahville 10 to 1......i sure havent seen any pics or heard any reports of plants being hauled out.

so they conspired to grow plants? thats it?
 
They reported to have taken 10 thousand plants, money, and guns. Whether that's true remains to be seen. But the issue may well be more about illegal flows of money than the drugs themselves.

It'll probably be a couple of months or so before the charges are filed.
 
money, pot, taxes, code enforcement.....the story changes by the hour!!!
 
i once dreamed that i was standing in a giant field of pot plants.....can they get me for conspiracy to grow pot plants?
 
I suspect this whole bust came out of the state pushing for more control over sub dividing, Williamson Act, etc. The beginning of this investigation was around the time (maybe a little later) of charges against McKey. Of course they saw all the building of roads, greenhouses, grows, etc.I would have preferred that the people in Lost River were warned against building there; instead they were watched and busted.
 
anon11:19am said "Go feds!

hopefully, these major operations are over and gone and there will be plenty of prison time for y'all."

Spoken like a true grower !!
 
Unfortunately, many people in this community raised their kids to not pay attention to laws, having skirted them in many ways themselves. No building permits, illegal earnings. Many kids here don't even know what they're doing is illegal. They're very naive and surprised when busted for living in an illegal subdivision and growing pot. They don't realize that if you earn your living illegally (and many 215's wouldn't hold up in court for young, healthy people- plus you can't sell it legally) you need to be as invisible as possible. They live in a bubble.
 
Eric, is the next step the grand jury in SF?
 
was charlie custer's piece part of thank jah or was he on the news? could someone tell me so i can listen to him? thanks
 
I listened to thank jah and was surprised to hear that some folks(more than expected)believed press releases and rumors.

My sources tell me that the people that put together the lost river group discouraged indoor grow scenes. Also, the land was sold at reasonable prices.

Remember---nothing is totally true or false. Dig deep and don't be so quick to condemn.
If the court system functioned on rumors we'd all(americans) be screwed.
 
The news.
 
The man named Buda that I know is a friendly guy and a family man who doesn't like guns.
 
Also, the land was sold at reasonable prices.

My understanding is that the land wasn't sold at all, but rather shares in a corporation which owns the land were sold in lieu of an actual deeded transfer of ownership.
 
video of a convoy leaving fortuna early thursday morning.
 
Thank you. I embedded it in the main post.
 
I know of someone with three plants that they were allowed to keep, with an old 215. I know someone with 6 plants, and a 215, the plants were taken. I guess it depended on where you were on "the list".I know of a couple of people who were arrested, and then let go, and people "held", but not arrested. Illegal sub-dividing is wrong. Getting around the law is wrong. I know a parent whose attitude in raising their kids has been "I tell 'em to do illegal things, and if they get caught to send the cops to me". Great parenting skills there(not).If we can't "police" our own community, then I guess someone else(feds) will have to do it for us? Maybe the next time we have a diesel spill, the names of the people should be out in the public domain, instead of protected and hidden, so they can't keep hiding and doing "business as usual".
 
...man named Buda (sic) that I know is a friendly guy and a family man who doesn't like guns

Buddha? ROTFLMAO!!!
 
1:39 PM
“My understanding is that the land wasn't sold at all, but rather shares in a corporation which owns the land were sold in lieu of an actual deeded transfer of ownership.”

Eric, you buy shares and are given a plot of land to call your own. Surely you understand this.
 
Yes, I understand. You don't own the land.

There've been other situations like this, and when clients come in for advice, we routinely advise them not to "buy" in. Something happens to the title and you have no recourse. You have shares to an empty corporate shell.

Any land deal which doesn't involve an escrow, with the execution and recording of a deed, and title insurance, is probably a very bad deal. Your free legal advice for the week.
 
Eric, Does the evidence go to a grand jury in SF and then charges are brought?
 
As has been stated elsewhere, are there any witnesses to the removal of the alleged 10,000 plants. Has anyone seen the evidence leaving the area in the backs of vehicles or via helicopter? Without buds on the plants would there be any motivation to haul them out?
 
I think "Michael Milkin's" post was meant to be sarcastic and in concord with yours, Eric. Given that Michael Milkin was the King of Greed aka Junk Bond King, I think he was just Joshin ya, if you get my drift.
 
and many 215's wouldn't hold up in court for young, healthy people- plus you can't sell it legally

If you mean under California law, you are mistaken.

Any land deal which doesn't involve an escrow, with the execution and recording of a deed, and title insurance, is probably a very bad deal. Your free legal advice for the week.

Ditto.

I expect Grand Jury Subpoenae before charges go out. I expect nothing for some time while they sort through all the crap they seized, bank books etc, most of which will be dry holes. Don't look for charges this year IMHO.
 
To remove any possible ambiguity in the last post. I totally agree with Eric's "free legal advice" regarding land sales. That's what the ditto means.

I suspect it will be difficult to keep the LLCs together now, which will mean everyone losing everything invested I suspect (Eric, is this the case? I suppose it depends on the LLC's deal with the land owners)
 
KMUD news just ended with NOTHING about the FBI et al. I would think a week end wrap up was called for.
 
5:07 PM
There are eyewitnesses. The Nielsen Ranch had a good view of the proceedings. Many helicopter loads.
 
I remember many years ago when the boohoo bible guy bought land on Elk Ridge and rented out meditation sites. I know one guy and many of you know him too who rented a meditation site and grew weed on it. Ah but then I am so nostalgic.
 
Has anybody seen Buddha?
 
8:52,
good eyes...you should report what you saw to CLMP. 923-4646
 
"Local girls sniff out real men"
Ya Harley Run was just the other week so we locals know what real leather smells like. Its not SMOKEY, 10-4 roger! Lastnights local bar scene indicated that "they're back" but in jeans & T's. Maybe you shouldn't pack a gun when you go to the bar? Might blow your cover. Is that a gun in your pocket or are you happy to see me. Confirmation was aslo by a nice firefigher assoc. that smoked a cig. w/ them and called there bluff. God I love Garb.!
 
think they left any bugs anywhere?
 
Bet they will be out in force the first weekend of August.
 
think they left any bugs anywhere?

The whole county is bugged already; They are in the beautiful house plants you buy at ShopSmart.
 
So that's a good reason to grow your own flowers outside and not buy the over priced forced flowers from out of town un-ecological growers.
I like mine better outside anyway.
 
The growers got to pay their taxes like everyone else .They wouldn't be here if they paid their dues . You say they can't because it's illegal ?
The clinics in , Arcata pay taxes and did they bust them ? The owner of one of the clinics told me that she'll 1099 any growers that sell to them but , some will refuse and walk out the door . If the growers can keep records then they can keep records of what they owe in taxes .Pay your taxes , bro' !
 
Not a shot fired . That tells you something about what kind of peace loving people marijuana growers are .
 
I'm sorry to pop your bubble but it just so happens that one of your peace loving hippies assaulted an officer out there.
 
Right, the "hippie" yelled at the cop. That was the extent of the "assault".
 
Just because not a shot was fired doesn't prove anything. It would probably have turned out different if one cop went into the "community"... but most people (certain Mexican cartels excluded) are not dumb enough to fire at 450 heavily armed and trained officers. Also, this raid was leaked weeks in advance, and many of their friends live in Whitethorn and Briceland, so a lot of the growers were probably miles away before the convoy got there.
 
I'm sorry to pop your bubble but it just so happens that one of your peace loving hippies assaulted an officer out there.

The account is in dispute. By some accounts, the entire exchange was completely verbal until the arrest. We'll see if any charges are actually pressed.
 
The invasion of the Lost Paradise property , crudely called BuddhaVille, is the most recent example of the governments new strategy of prosecuting property owners.
The federal government has been using the RAVE Act USSC 856 to prosecute many property owners in California. You can find information about the RAVE act at the following sites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAVE_Act
http://bbsnews.net/bw2003-06-12.html

The theme of most federal prosecutions in this regard is to charge a defendant with conspiracy and 856 (RAVE ACT). Conspiracy is governed by mandatory minimum sentencing. If you are convicted in a conspiracy with over 100 marijuana plants you will be sentenced to five years, in a conspiracy with over 1000 plants you will be sentenced to ten years. Unfortunately the judge and jury have no discretion over your sentencing in a mandatory minimum case. Most defendants when facing mandatory minimums decide to plead guilty rather than face an uncertain outcome in court which could lead to lengthy prison terms. When pleading the government typically agrees to reduce the sentence to a non mandatory minimum charge; the RAVE Act USSC 856 is a non mandatory minimum charge. What is important to note is that the federal government indicts using charges that will lead to a guilty plea, the longer the sentence the more likely a defendant pleads guilty (whether or not they are actually innocent).

Recently the government has been focused on targeting real property owners in order to put a dent in marijuana crime. Unfortunately this is quite effective because a property owner has both their freedom and their finances to lose. You can read more at the following sites:

http://www.canorml.org/news/LA_DEAletter.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/07/BAE4UTGBG.DTL

Humboldt County has a major housing shortage. There is very little land available for new families to homestead. This shortage combined with a difficult regulatory environment has led to property owners using other forms of ownership. The same thing has been happening for sometime in San Francisco and the people have responded by creatively following the law so that they can have a form of home ownership. The following website explains a lot about California models of co-ownership:

http://www.andysirkin.com/Index.cfm

Equity or ownership co-operatives are an effective form of land ownership. Their organizational framework is usually established by the developer of each project and its lawyers.

Co-owners have been called something more than a tenant , and something less than an owner. Typically, a corporation owns the property, and each purchaser receives a share in the corporation, together with a non exclusive long-term right to use in one particular area. That right is usually documented by an "occupancy agreement."

One can investigate what form of co ownership "Lost Paradise" is using the following website:

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C2581198&printer=yes

Contrary to reports, Lost Paradise is not an LLC, it is a corporation. A corporation is not the best current model of ownership for real estate. In fact most real estate investors use LLC's because of the favorable tax regulations that corporations do not enjoy.

A corporation in Humboldt that owns land in the same way as Lost Paradise is: The Big Lagoon Park Corporation. The Big Lagoon Park Corporation has enabled the co ownership of approximately 50 acres of land with 76 shareholders on the coast just north of trinidad for over fifty years. The Board of Directors has done a great job in helping to make sure that this corporation runs efficiently through proper by-laws and governance.

It is important to note that just because you are a shareholder of a corporation that may be involved in illegal acts, you are not necessarily responsible for the corporations actions. The Enron case is a great example of this. It would be a shame if the federal government used 450 agents to investigate shareholders of the Lost Paradise corporation solely because they were owners. All of the shareholders of Enron were not investigated.

There are many working models of co ownership through out Humboldt and California. It is unlikely that the reason for this attack on civil liberties was because of the manner in which title to the property was held. More likely is that the federal government is all about seizing assets. Real estate owners typically have very visible non liquid assets that are easy to take and assess. Real estate owners are usually the most political for this reason: government is constantly stealing from them. Property owners in Humboldt county should be outraged at this recent invasion and should be worried about what is next. Will we see an increase in civil forfeiture like we saw in the late 80's?
 
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
 
I won't argue with the civil liberties issue, but I will strenuously discourage my clients from buying into a corporation as a substitute for actual deeded ownership. Instead of a corporation you are better off with a 1/100 interest in the property itself, though I would still advise against it.

It's not just a question of seizure. If someone builds a negligently defective deck and a guest is hurt and sues, everyone on the property is on the hook. If you have a corporation, your independent assets may not be on the hook, but your property interest is.

If the manager of the corporation does not pay its taxes, or mortgage payments, you cannot cure it unless you have the money to pay for the whole property, not just your parcel.

There are communal type ownership set-ups which work, such as condo associations where you are at least protected in that your ownership of non-common areas are distinct and separable. Perhaps there are other models which will work as well. But do not buy into a corporation in lieu of actual deeded ownership. I can't tell you how many people we've helped and yes, you do have recourses, but not always and not without spending tens of thousands of dollars. It's about an ounce of prevention, and I don't need the business that badly.
 
By the way, I'm not accusing anyone of a "scam" and without facts I'm removing the post which makes the accusation. Those starting the land ownership corporations may have good intentions. I'm just giving you my opinion that it's a bad idea.
 
04:15:00 PM,

That's a lot of incredible information. Thanks so much for getting it out. If you want to talk more about this, I'm in the book.

Charley
 
Charley we already talked on saturday morning. You can call if you want to continue the conversation. How is the proposed KMUD program coming along?
 
The program director didn't have an open slot before late July. Maybe we can borrow a talk slot in the meantime? Eric, would you like to host a general conversation on code, ownership modes, what the new developments were like, and all else? Any other programmer?

--Charley
 
Reading these threads can be so discouraging. Could someone like host a forum on legitimate economic development for businesses in the area. My God you guys look like leaders in the community come on do something for the future of your kids if nothing else or are you waiting for the shootout at OK Corral to happen before getting the backbone to recommend a significant change in community direction. Nothing will ever get done unless the community organizes and gets it going. Now would be a good time don't you think.
 
You first.
 
I'd like to live a bit longer thanks.
 
The "assault" you are speaking of was by a young fellow witnessing an "assault" on his family.
We are lucky that the officers involved were disciplined and did not over react.

The only appropriate response to a law enforcement officer in enforcement mode, is to comply completely, because they will accept nothing less. There is nothing you can say or do that will satisfy them other than compliance.
Every action you take other than compliance will eventually have to be overcome by your attorney.
 
Actually, I've got some court wins which say otherwise, including one based on an appellate court case that you need not follow law enforcement instructions "with alacrity."
 
I don't understand your point, eric.
I had to look up "alacrity".
It means, "cheerful readiness, promptness, or willingness."

OK, so you don't have to be cheerful, but if you've ever been face to face with an agro cop(assuming you are not a lawyer)they make it very clear that there is only one response they will accept. The moment of enforcement is the officers game, regardless of what the law says. Whether or not the cop acts properly is where you come in.
My point is do what you are told and let your attorney deal with the actions of the arresting officer. You don't have to say anything(possibly give your name)but when you are instructed by the officer to stand up or get out of the vehicle or put your hands behind your back, you should comply.
Surely you wouldn't advise a client to argue with an arresting officer, would you? You may not need to follow with alacrity, but you should still follow instructions and not argue---right?
 
Well 5:26, what Eric is saying is that the very attitude from law enforcement makes him money.
 
DEA, FBI, & CID consistently follow and comment on the blogs. Psy-Ops is what they call it. Control public opinion through leading the thread. Unfortunately, courts have consistently supported cops ability to lie and distort in order to discover “the truth”.
 
I don't understand your point, eric.
I had to look up "alacrity".
It means, "cheerful readiness, promptness, or willingness."


In this case, my client was ordered to drop his camera. He said he was setting it down. The officer said "I told you to drop it, now drop it." He responded, "officer, it's a 300 dollar camera, I'm setting it down."

He was arrested and charged with interfering with the duties of an officer. Although the initial allegations were about his photographing the search of his car, the officer later changed his story (after the criminal case was dismissed and a civil action filed), but the jury didn't buy it. I found the "alacrity" case and the judge agreed to make it a jury instruction. He was imprisoned for about 6 or 7 hours. The jury awarded him 15,000 dollars because the AG made your very argument - namely that you're supposed to do what law enforcement tells you without question. That pissed the jury off.
 
"Anonymous said...
DEA, FBI, & CID consistently follow and comment on the blogs.
Wed Jul 02, 07:17:00 AM"

Yo Kiwitongue... People with special interests follow the blogs too and will do anything to eliminate as much free thinking and association as possible that goes against the good-old-growers code. For example this post could just be a way to tell those, less informed about the authorities and how they work, to not pay any attention to the ideas expressed here that disagree with the lifestyles we have all told you to come and love.

The games go both ways and we've probably seen instances of both. But I can tell you I don't agree with the justifications given for greed growing and I have nothing to do with the authorities.
 
If I were a grower I'd want a jury of Humboldt County peers. Minus a few outlying areas like Rio Dell, Fortuna, and Scotia of course. How could I lose? Even if the County Supervisors ruled on it or the local Sheriffs I betcha I'd win regardless of the facts. A slap on the hand and a small finger waved in the face. Off I go. Hi-ho, hi-ho, its to the grow I go.

Sorry I can't sing better I am a little bit peeved by the garbage nonsense on this thread.
 
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