SoHum Parlance

This may be old news. I haven't been following this thread as much as 5 days ago. But I heard from a reliable source that the poor homesteader who Terry was interviewing on KMUD who said he thought his house was just raided by agents en route to the real targets of thie investigation was actually Budha. All that sympathy I had for that guy, now just have a smirk.
 

The problem with the post on Heraldo is it doesn't cover intent.
 

I think the rumor that the Feds are still here is true. I just saw a guy in an SUV, pulling a trailer, parked on Pine Street, within sight of Chautauqua. The trailer had very large coolers and chairs, and he had a homeland security shirt around one of the seats. It looked like he was on some small high tech computer. When he left I was tempted to follow him to see where he went, but I wasn't close enough to my car.
 

You know when the shit hits the fan you want something to do, to help, be pro-active. The best information I heard was from Chief Blue ______, sorry I didn't catch the last name, from the Whale Gulch Vol. Fire Dept. It was on KMUD and should be repeated in every rural area affected by the fires. He spoke for 10 minutes on what one needs to do
around their house to prepare for fires and the arrival of CalFire.

It was the best info I have heard during this entire conflagration and I heard they did an heroic job for 2 days before CalFire arrived.Hats off to the Whale Gulch Vol. Fire Dept.

It should be played weekly on the Community Safety and Awareness Report during the Fire season.
 

Dear Anonymous 02:29,
I think that if you were to follow a federal investigator, that would constitute 'counter-intelligence' activity against the United States. That is not something you would want to walk into court trying to defend. It's true, they are public servants, but the climate has changed in the federal law enforcement culture, these days they are very likely to charge those who they know are not a threat, just to punish them. It's a scary world the neo-cons have created for themselves.
moviedad.blogspot.com
 

FYI to 4:03, the Whale Gulch chief is Blu Graham. And Whale Gulch saw the need for good preparation a LONG time ago - that's why they co-hosted that great meeting early in the spring, at Needle Rock, with a bunch of the agencies (including Calfire, the Coast Guard, BLM, etc.).
 

You're right, Moviedad, I probably would have gotten in trouble following a fed. Have to keep my curiosity in check.

The feds do what they want, and the present administration will sanction any behavior. I heard that a young woman (during these recent raids) was surprised naked and wasn't allowed to dress for two hours. I also heard that five children were handcuffed. I hope these stories are not true. Anyone know?
 

I know that a 16-year-old girl and her 5- and 3-year-old brothers were awakened from their beds by law enforcement officials with automatic weapons, but only the 16-year-old was hand-cuffed.
 

ahh, keepin' us "safe" once again.

i bet those kids felt real safe.
 

"I know that a 16-year-old girl and her 5- and 3-year-old brothers were awakened from their beds by law enforcement officials with automatic weapons, but only the 16-year-old was hand-cuffed."

Just curious. If you are growing and you believe the feds do this kind of shit what about it surprises you? That is why you get the big bucks because you take a huge risk. You are risking your family, your friends, your property, and your freedom. I don't get why you are surprised. In my world you are paying for your profiteering off of something that is still officially an illegal activity. If I got busted because I didn't pay my bills or something I'd be told it was my own fault and that I asked for it. Welfare people are told this all the time. Look I have friends who grow too but they know what they risk and they aren't crying about being treated poorly. If you are waiting for the feds to go through sensitivity training you could be waiting for a while. Do you have any idea how dense and foolish you look to the outside world when you post this kind of whiner stuff. You got caught. You took the risk. End of rant.
 

Christina,

The WGVFD was started in 1977 or 78 after the fires of that year. I'm sorry I missed the meeting.

4:03
 

Read the post of someone named Real Property" on Heraldo's Editors string. It is a must if you are interested in the raids and their aftermath. Lots of info and links.
 

It was posted here to. Eric nor Ed were impressed with the real estate law.
 

8:27: I don't care what the offense is, the cops need to follow the law. And they don't need to harass people as they do their job. There is a reason that there is a constitution and laws protecting peoples' rights. And you don't know if everyone in these raids are guilty. What if they mistakenly came to your place? Wouldn't you want to be treated with respect? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? I suppose you support illegal wiretaps and torture, too.
 

hey locals.

You say the feds have to follow the law, I agree.

BUT SO DO YOU CRIMINALS!
 

Many of us are not criminals.
 

I am a veteran, a dad, an active community member, a tradesman, a husband, a pot grower.

I AM NOT A CRIMINAL!!!!!

The feds like to portray everything as a war and people who don't agree with policy and laws as criminals.
We all know that the worlds biggest criminals are in the white house now and the corporate level of criminality is at a high point.

For those of you out there who like to talk about greed, remember that jealousy is also basic to humans.

For those of you who are jealous of the "big bucks" growers are supposed to be making, it's time to start getting some real info.
Most growers I know are able to maintain a "middle class" life style, if that. By "middle class", I mean we are struggling to pay our taxes, afford health care, send our kids to school etc.

ANOTHER MISCONCEPTION; GROWERS DON'T WORK.
Sorry, but that is BS. Growers that have no other source of income have to work HARD to make it.
For many growers, it is necessary to try to make money in several ways---jobs, businesses etc.
It is simply hard to make it on the north coast and pot helps alot.

I'm sure you can point out some one whom has become rich through pot, which is also an example of human nature.
Commercial pot growing came to a very poor county. Most folks started out equal----ie:poor. We had similar opportunity along with our individual potentials. Some got rich and some are still struggling.

All you have to do is look at the volunteer effort on the fires to realize that your neighbors will do more for you and life in this region than the feds will ever do.

There is nothing easier than to resent the person standing next to you that appears to have what you think you need or want.
LOOK DEEPER.
 

9:24 The law is not always right or just. And the definition of what makes one a criminal really varies based on ones personal beliefs about a law. I just recently moved to So Hum, I don't have any involvement in the marijuana industry here but I have to say that I love the mass civil disobedience that is taking place!
 

Hate to break it to you, but if you are growing dope to sell, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.

Now, get over it. If you don’t want to be a criminal, THEN STOP!


And the next time the feds are in town to bust you criminals, they can stay at my house for free.
 

How exciting! Your own little fed to take care of. Hope they don't make a mistake and arrest you for something you didn't do.
 

Nope, just like they are not making a mistake by arresting you criminals who grow dope to sell instead of having a serious disease that you are medicating yourselves for.

I am like a great deal of people who are compassionate for the ill and have no tolerance for those of you who use 215 as an excuse to deal illegally in dope.

I sincerely hope that your land and your toys as well as your crop gets confiscated.

Try working for a living and try living on a budget like the vast majority of us do.
 

And also don't forget to pay your taxes on your earnings like the rest of us.
 

You mean like the bottom 90 percent?
 

Actually, like the top 90%. The criminals don't pay and neither do those on assistance.
 

"For those of you who are jealous of the "big bucks" growers are supposed to be making, it's time to start getting some real info."

Such hubris. I don't think of the average pot grower as a criminal and I don't grow pot myself. But to think that people are jealous would imply that you have something they cannot have. What would that be? Money? If it is money it would be rather odd to be complaining about struggling to send your kids to school and healthcare because that is where a lot of our tax dollars we pay on our income goes. You are using the services we are forced to pay for out of our income.

We work for you. We have no choice but to work for you. We work to pay your social security we work to pay the cost of your roads, fire equipment, snow removal equipment, and remember all those road slides a couple years ago? We paid for those too and the bridge that is going in so you can travel to where you need to go.

It isn't jealousy it is anger. To be jealous I'd have to believe you have something I want. I don't want to live my life in shame, hiding and clutching at my neighbors throats praying they won't turn me in or that they will come to my aid when the authorities can't. In the end you will have a whole bunch of broken families, dreams, and a few trips to Europe. You took a good philosophical fight from a couple of decades ago and gave a couple of jabs at it and then laid down on the job and started buying into all the things you were fighting against. Now you want to hold it up like some badge of courage. It is a weak man that needs this type of armor to prove his manhood.

You are not a criminal in my eyes and you may even be a good person in your family's eyes but your value to this society is less than mine because you are simply draining the planet's resources and not giving anything back except what you decide you can afford. You hide, you lie, you create a bad environment for my kids to be raised in. I want my kids to have integrity and learn they have to do honest hard work to get ahead. You aren't working for anything or anybody but yourself and yours.
 

"Actually, like the top 90%. The criminals don't pay and neither do those on assistance."

And your monolithic stereotyping doesn't help anyone either. Get updated and get the facts. Welfare fraud ended pretty much in the 90's.
 

Does anyone know anything about a very large group of vehicles coming from the Petrolia road onto 101 near Weott?
 

This is what bugs me Mr. Mightier Than Thou Grower Dude. Why is it you can make a living on growing? It is because I can't. Yep basically the Feds have created your ability to make a parasitic living off those who follow the rules. If every one grew you wouldn't be able to get the price you need to make it worth the risk. There wouldn't be any risk except crop or market failure.

I follow the rules because as a parent I understand that my kids need to follow the rules to survive. I have to tell them to get up every morning and go to school on time. I have to tell them to do what their teachers say. I tell them to drive safely and follow the rules. I tell them to get a health checkup and follow the rules to good health. I tell them to follow the rules and practice safe sex as they grow older. I tell them to follow the rules and play a honest game of T-ball, soccer, football. How in the hell do I teach them to be productive people if I am not following the rules myself? I hated that shit when I was a kid.

That is my point. You can't. Kids can see you more honestly than you do yourself. And kids are our future. The harm you are doing to the community in the long run every one is going to have to pay for eventually. Your kids are already paying it. Look at the towns you live in. They are dirty, unkempt, and barely cared for. They are dead except for grower businesses that want a cover. Your kids see this every day of their lives.

Get it legalized or don't grow. Justifying the idea you don't have to follow the rules when others do because you aren't a criminal worked for the first five years when it was a political movement. Now your justifications just smell like a double standard and a cover up because you don't have another way to make your living without being accountable to the rest of us.
 

Our towns would be a lot dirtier,
more unkempt, and even less cared for without the pot economy.
 

That is a logical fallacy. Your town would be growing at the same rate as the population. The businesses would be geared to what the local population needs and can afford. The motivation to make it better would be there for everybody not just the ones who benefit from the pricey knick-knack stores in town. Your kids might stay around. You'd have a local adult education program that works. You might even have a local government. You might even have a group developing green businesses. You could be on the cutting edge of environmentally sustainable economies.
 

Dream on.
 

That is what dreams are for to motivate people to do the actions to make it come true. There is nothing stopping it from happening except the company town mentality.
 

1:52

So, you are not jealous. Would you say you are resentful? You sound very resentful. The dictionary says jealous means:feeling resentment because of another's success, advantage, etc. (often fol. by of): He was jealous of his brother's wealth.

Hubris means overbearing pride and arrogance. I don't think it is hubris to reject an unfair characterization made by a government agency or mean spirited people as those in this blog referring to growers as criminals.

I will reiterate---I am not a criminal.
I am a hard working person and I don't resent you or any possible advantage you may have over me.

I do resent being called a criminal-got it.
I'm glad to hear you don't think of growers as criminals.

BTW, I totally reject your position that you are a more valuable person than I am--how arrogant.
 

You want to use that word then fine. Jealously invokes the context of want. Post the whole definition not your little cherry-picking to save face. Yes I resent the fact that you are essentially stealing from the rest of us and using the goodwill we create to make your living on while undermining the systems we invest or have to invest in around you.

Do I want to be like you? No. I don't want or keep friends like you either. I don't want my children to grow up to be like you either. I don't even want your children to grow up to be like you. I resent it because of the corruption you have helped to build has made me, a good citizen, feel less powerful in a nation where ideally that shouldn't be happening.

It is about process and it is about democracy. Listening to your garbage about you do what you do because it is a good thing to do and it works for you negates the process we are supposed to work to improve and thrive on. There is a little war in Iraq that the Feds foisted upon us based on the same type of I get to do what I want because I want it reasoning.

I don't post unless that crap comes up. I want my country back. Too many people are afraid to even speak up and it's a real shame. I am a better citizen than you are because I don't treat my neighbors, friends and family, carelessly and risk their safety and future so I can make the easier more plentiful buck. You don't have to agree it is my viewpoint. If you think I'm arrogant it doesn't really matter because by virtue of the less than credible reasoning here your opinion has no value, no merit, and no integrity. Maybe it does to someone else and that is fine. They get to own their opinion too and put it out there. That IS how the system works. Now that is what arrogance is all about.
 

the other person worked for their advantage you took yours thats the difference
 

Hate to break it to you, but if you are growing dope to sell, YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.

This is a common misconception. Under California law certain people associated in particlar ways with medical marijuana patients, may sell marijuana to medical marijuana patients, or their caregivers. It's tricky to get it right, but there are California legal sales.

The Feds believe their laws trump ours. The California legislature has found differently. Read the version of SB 420 that passed back in 2003. I'm with the California Legislature on this one.
 

How many people do you think are really following 215 guidelines Ed. Come on. I'm on your side but that comment doesn't pass the smell test.
 

Have youever exceeded the speed limit? Speeder! Criminal!

(And in a way that actually threatens the lives of others).

If you have ever crossed a city street not at the crosswalk? Jaywalker! Criminal!

(And in a way that potentially threatens your own life, not to mention the front bumpers of people's cars.)

Forgot to pay your car insurance on time? Failure to Maintain Required Insurance! Criminal!

Took a walk in some timberland or hiked off of the trail in a state park? Trespasser! Criminal!

Yelled at someone? Assault! Criminal!

Driven home after having one or two beers at a friend's house? Drunk Driver! Criminal!

Built a shed or deck without a permit? Code scofflaw! Criminal!

Fell asleep on the beach or on a park bench? Vagrant! Criminal!

Taken a little under-the-table work for your neighbor or failed to report your regular babysitter as an "employee?" Tax Cheater! Criminal!

O.K., I could go on, but I guess first I should ask - is there anybody left who has never done any of these things - ever?

If so, I guess you can cast a few stones at all us "criminals."
 

Sam Adams: Criminal!
Patrick Henry: Criminal!
Harriet Tubman: Criminal!
Escaped Slaves: Criminals!
Jews who resisted Hitler: Criminals!
Rosa Parks: Criminal!
Martin Luther King, Jr.: Criminal!
Freedom Riders: Criminals!
Mahatma Gandi: Criminal!
Nelson Mandela: Criminal!

Again, I could go on and on...but hopefully you get the point: sometimes "the law is an ass." Marijuana Prohibition is such a law. It should be resisted, ignored, flaunted, ridiculed, and eventually abolished, just like Alcohol Prohibition was.
 

John Gotti: Criminal!
Indonesia's Suharto: Criminal!
Timothy McVeigh: Criminal!
Ted Bundy: Criminal!
Bonnie and Clyde: Criminals!

So what's your point. You haven't made one yet.
 

How many people do you think are really following 215 guidelines Ed. Come on. I'm on your side but that comment doesn't pass the smell test.

You tell me which guidelines you have in mind and I'll be able to respond. So far all I said was that some marijuana sales between patients and/or caregivers are legal under California law. I should add that profit is not legal - but profit has a legal definition that may not be what you think.

Glad you're on my side, however we may disagree about the conduct of certain folks.
 

DEA, FBI, & CID consistently follow and comment on the blogs. Psy-Ops is what they call it. Control public opinion through leading the thread. Unfortunately, courts have consistently supported cops ability to lie in order to discover “the truth”.
 

onymous said...
Our towns would be a lot dirtier,
more unkempt, and even less cared for without the pot economy.

WTF???? When is the last time YOU paid taxes to help a public school, road work, etc? You are a leech and a drain and the only economy you help support is the groovy ass boutique selling hemp shirts for $140. that real working people can't afford to buy anyway. At least the Blue Lake Casino takes some of their alcohol-gambling money and puts it back into their town in the form of school, senior lunch programs, etc. What do you do???
 

I work, and have since I was 14, in legally paying jobs. I pay a lot of taxes (at least 30%). I also donate to many local groups. I still think the pot economy has helped So Hum. You sound like you have a big anger problem. And I certainly don't buy $140 hemp shirts. You're making huge generalizations. What you say is true of some people, but not of a lot of others.
 

7:18- I work in the schools and believe me these 'criminals' are doing so much for the community and the children of this community...it blows me away. There is a ton of parent involvement in the schools and we are able to keep programs going because of the gracious donations that people in this community have made. The stereotyping and generalizing on this thread is disgusting! What do YOU do for the community besides pay taxes?
 

This so called "gracious parent involvement" has led to school closings and teacher firings everywhere you look.

Dribbling a few brownies on a bake sale does not take the place of paying taxes on your earnings. The pot growers need to stop congratulating themselves and look at the damage they have caused to our community. They have given us automatic weapons, locked gates, armed vigilantes, hard drugs, burned out children, ruined marriages, dead bodies buried all over the hills.
 

10:20,

If you did not get the point, you're pretty thick.

Obviously the point of the Criminal! posts was that not everyone who can be called a "criminal" has anything to be ashamed of, because some "crimes" shouldn't be a crime in the first place. Marijuana, for example.

I think most folks got the point the first time, but hopefully now you did, too.
 

Actually, this "gracious parent involvement" is what is keeping our smaller schools open.

It is our wonderful government that values education so greatly that has caused school closings and teacher firings everywhere you look.

Every community has its problems and every community has its leeches. You can't blame it all on pot.
 

Actually, you certainly CAN blame it all on pot. It has ruined a good community and the damage keeps getting worse.

How many dead children will it take for you to wake up to the plague that has engulfed this community?
 

How many children here have been buried because of alcohol? Seems to be a much bigger problem. Have you seen the recent Healthy Kids Survey results? 50% of our high school students here binge drink and 40% have driven in a car with somebody who has been drinking. (my percentages could be slightly off...I can't recall exactly). Seems like a big problem that needs to be addressed.

And what about all of the lives that have been lost on the roads here? Is that all related to pot too? It seems car accidents have claimed a lot of the young lives. What can we do about this problem?

Like I said, there is an ugly side to every community. Take a Wal-Mart community, for example. According to you, all of the people that are working at Wal-Mart legally, paying taxes and barely getting by are doing good in your eyes. But what about the harm that Wal-Mart is causing to people around the globe? Harm is all relative, I guess, to each person's own perspective of the world.

Again, I see a lot of people in this community working their butts off to make this a great place for children to live and grow up.

No, they may not all be paying taxes on their income but a lot of them are donating their time and money to non-profits and organizations in need. A lot of people in this community are certainly donating more to the community than a person who works at Wal-Mart would pay in taxes, for example.

I don't know. You can keep blaming pot and pot growers and being angry. That is fine. I choose to see the good in this community and the good in the people in this community. I am excited to be raising children here and I am grateful to the people here that I have met that are working to make this world a better place. And there are a lot of them.
 

9:34 the point I got was that the public can take any word and twist the intent and meaning behind it. John Gotti and a crosswalk violation certainly shouldn't be represented by the same word in a dynamic culture. Honey I may be slow but I am not dense by any stretch of the imagination. You missed the point and intents in the original posts. Not everyone was calling this person a criminal.
 

You are kidding. So Hum kids don't follow the rules? I'm shocked.
 

Look it is a good rant but "No, they may not all be paying taxes on their income but a lot of them are donating their time and money to non-profits and organizations in need. A lot of people in this community are certainly donating more to the community than a person who works at Wal-Mart would pay in taxes, for example." tells more about how people justify their own conscious than it does about anything else. I'd like my taxes to all go to my favorite places too please. No more bombs. What makes you special? Oh that's right you don't have to follow the rules.
 

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
 

Tue Jul 01, 10:18:00 AM said
I AM NOT A CRIMINAL!!!!!

In your own fantasy you may not be. But by law you are, no matter how many exclamation marks you use. You grow it. That's against federal law (it's time to start getting some real info).

And if you are selling it (like most of your neighbors are) to maintain your ugly middle class life style, than you are breaking state law.
 

oops --then not than
 

Ok numbnuts here is your response:

"Have youever exceeded the speed limit? Speeder! Criminal!" - NO I DON’T and anyway, that would be an infraction which isn’t even close (lame argument dude.)

"If you have ever crossed a city street not at the crosswalk? Jaywalker! Criminal!" - NO I DON’T and anyway again that is an infraction (see above)

"Forgot to pay your car insurance on time? Failure to Maintain Required Insurance! Criminal!" NO - I HAVE INSURANCE AND PAY IT ON TIME. Even if it were late it is also an infraction you dufus. Now if you don't have it at all, I hope they fine the crap out of you because the rest of us have to finance your fuckups after you injure our property and don't pay for it.

"Took a walk in some timberland or hiked off of the trail in a state park? Trespasser! Criminal!" (You need professional help if you think hiking off of a trial makes you a trespasser, but....
NO I DON’T TRESPASS ON OTHER PEOPLE’S PROPERTY.

"Yelled at someone? Assault! Criminal!" - YOU EVIDENTLY DON’T HAVE A CLUE WHAT ASSAULT IS. Yelling doesn’t qualify, but NO I DON’T YELL AT PEOPLE NOR HAVE I EVER THREATENED TO HIM OTHERS.

"Driven home after having one or two beers at a friend's house? Drunk Driver! Criminal! Now you are talking....drunk driving is a crime and I am glad of it. Lock the drunks up." AND NO I DON’T DRIVE AFTER DRINKING ANYTHING.

"Built a shed or deck without a permit? Code scofflaw!" Criminal! NO I DON’T NOR HAVE I EVER BUILT A DECK, SHED ETC WITHOUT A PERMIT. I FOLLOW THE LAW!

"Fell asleep on the beach or on a park bench? Vagrant! Criminal! Evidently you again need professional help if you think that falling asleep on a beach makes you a vagrant." BUT I ONLY CAMP AT PARKS AND AFTER I HAVE PAID FOR IT.

"Taken a little under-the-table work for your neighbor or failed to report your regular babysitter as an "employee?" Tax Cheater! Criminal!" NOPE, AGAIN. I AM EMPLOYED AND DON’T WORK UNDER THE TABLE. I AM TOO BUSY SUPPORTING MY SELF AND MY FAMILY.

"O.K., I could go on, but I guess first I should ask - is there anybody left who has never done any of these things - ever?" YES THERE ARE A LOT OF US.

What is so sad is the lack of morality you have buster. You expect everyone to be a criminal. But, we are not talking about little things...this crap can get you for tax evasion, conspiracy. These are major felonies. Now grow up and quit whining.
 

Note the aggressive tone from the pot growers. In person, this is what you always get from them, and it's backed up with guns and threats.

I took great pleasure in watching a big, agressive pot grower in this area go down hard as the feds followed my instructions to his land. Now that I've put him out of business, I will send the cops to his hideout door.

He will then give up his network. Never fails.
 

This is one sick community. When justifications like this start flying on both sides you know you have a serious problem on your hands. You don't define yourself by a word you define yourself by your actions. I define you by your actions. I define myself by my actions. If your actions are criminal then that is what they are and if they are not then they are not. The public doesn't make criminal code the law does. If all these are examples of being a criminal then someone somewhere is doing things that violate the law.
 

huh?
 

From the Substandard (note this guy isn't a criminal he just is a misguided but honest electrician).

Arson case leads to marijuana arrests
The Times-Standard
Article Launched: 07/02/2008 10:16:47 AM PDT

Three arrests were made Tuesday after officers with the Eureka Police and Eureka Fire departments raided two homes during an arson investigation and reportedly found a moderate sized marijuana growing operation inside.

Police said when officers first responded to a residence at 14th and M streets in Eureka, they found Eureka resident David McCullough allegedly attempting to flee the residence.

McCullough was taken into custody, EPD reported.

The investigation then led officers to a residence on the 1400 block of N Street where two more suspects -- Justin Galbreath and Daniel McCullough -- were found and arrested, according to officials.

Officers obtained a search warrant for the residence and confiscated around 450 growing plants, ranging from 6 inches to over one foot tall. About 4.5 pounds of dried marijuana were also reportedly found. EPD estimated the combined value would be $270,000 on the street.

Eureka Fire Marshall Bill Gillespie was called to the residence to examine what the EPD described as “hazardous electrical wiring.” Gillespie reportedly determined there was a dangerous hazard inside the residence, because of the way the grow house had been set up. Pacific Gas and Electric Co. was called to the scene and power was shut off.

A criminal complaint is being sought for the involved parties, EPD reported.
 

Just so you know, there is a well-organized campaign on the part of Church and Civic groups to turn in pot growers. We are working closely on a daily basis with the police. With every bust, we gain members who had been afraid to speak up.

Seized assets are one way we can do something for one and all.

The last couple of weeks were great for us. More to come...
 

This thread is bizarre enough, but please don't post unfounded claims about named individuals. At least not unless you're willing to put your name to it.
 

I live in NoHum not SoHum but am glad to see this exchange of opinion.

If people were moonshining, smuggling weapons, running brothels, or unauthorized dump sites to make money, would those activities be "all right" in your neighborhood? How about if the owners recruited your sons or daughters to make big money in the brothels?

And comparing a pot grower selling on the blackmarket to Sam Adams, Escaped Slaves, or Jews who resisted Hitler is ridiculous. They were acting publically against authority to help others. Pot growers are acting in secrecy to help only themselves.


Setting yourself up at the ultimate judge of what is permitted and what isn't, is the height of arrogance. And when there's no denying it, pot growers, like 4 year old point their finger and say "Look, look, alcohol is worse, so leave me alone". That's the lowest form of defense, trying to claim your are innocent because someone else is guilty. Of course, when cowards are caught, they care only about themselves, as opposed to Rosa Parks or Nelson Mandella.

Illegal pot growing fosters an insular criminal culture of secrecy and suspicion. A mafia run society doesn't uplift people, it keeps them isolated and scared. In other blogs, growers have given threats against violating their "outlaw" rules. And they don't feel any need to have due process or constitutional limitations on their actions. but they demand constitutional protections for themselves while denying them to anyone they don't like. Thats pure hypocracy.

If you can't go to your child's classroom on career day, speak out at a public meeting and tell what you do for a living, you have shame and no honor.
 

How about if the owners recruited your sons or daughters to make big money in the brothels?

How much money are we talking about?
 

If you can't go to your child's classroom on career day, speak out at a public meeting and tell what you do for a living, you have shame and no honor.

Does that include secret agents like Arnold Schwarzenegger in True Lies?
 

Nicely done 3:27 I have been trying to put those concepts into words with little success for a very long time.
 

Bravo 3:27! Bulls eye!!
 

Yeah 4:58 like Arnold did in "Kindergarten Cop" too. Don't worry, its only a movie !
 

noted resident plagiarist/liar "not a native" has no credibility to question other people's ethics. see...

http://humboldtherald.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/eureka-makes-cover-of-outside-magazine/#comment-41661

...and the exchanges following that for his/her own admission that s/he plagarizes anecdotes from the newspaper and presents them as his/her own on blogs, that s/he feels this is absolutely o.k. because it is a blog, and that anyone who believes him/her is a dupe and a fool. then not a native goes into a hilarious tailpin of name-calling and rage when these shortcomings are pointed out.

it's really quite amusing, if you haven't read it yet you really should before you waste any time arguing ethics with nan. s/he is in an ethical quagmire already, and should just follow the old saying "physician, heal thyself" before trying to improve anyone else's ethics.
 

3:27, your arrogance is showing! (not to mention your hypocrisy)

Escaped slaves were acting publicly against authority? Really? Of course not, most had to escape covertly to avoid detection by authorities seeking to opress them with unjust laws. You may not like pot growers, but they are in the same basic position with respect to the law: they believe it is unjust, and they refuse to be oppressed, but they also recognize the power of the oppressor so they act covertly in avoiding the oppression.

And while I'm sure that some escaped slaves escaped so that they could help others, most of them first and foremost acted to free themselves from slavery, did so covertly, and were helped by others, like Harriet Tubman, who also acted both "illegally" and covertly.

So 3:27 in one breath says that it is the height of arrogance to decide which law must be followed and which can be broken, then proceeds in the next breath to do that very thing by trying to distinguish the illegal act of growing pot from the illegal act of escaping from slavery.
 

Comment deleted
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

Eric V. Kirk said...
"This thread is bizarre enough, but please don't post unfounded claims about named individuals. At least not unless you're willing to put your name to it."

Erik, this is your blog and you may run it as you wish; since you chose to expurgate my comments, I will no longer attempt to post here. Nevertheless, I will assert that you ought to respect the intelligence of your readers enough to allow them to judge the values of posts on their own. Also, if you chose to censor posters, that is your prerogative; however, in the interest of fairness you should do so in a consistent manner, which you do not.

Peace,
Beowulf
 

Oh my god... hahahahah... hahahahah...hahaha... ha.. ha...ha.
 

Yes, there's no real comparison between speeding and growing your own pot, even though those are both illegal acts.

After all, speeding costs thousands of lives every year. Growing your own pot harms no one.

So yes, there IS a big difference.
 

Many escaped Slaves, once they arrived in places like New York, formed organizations to help others escape after them and spoke out about their experience of slavery to abolition groups. Fredrick Douglas was a famous escaped slave, ever hear of him? NO, I thought not, you're too involved smoking reefer thinking you're not being harmed. You are what you smoke, its called dope.
 

Erik, this is your blog and you may run it as you wish; since you chose to expurgate my comments, I will no longer attempt to post here. Nevertheless, I will assert that you ought to respect the intelligence of your readers enough to allow them to judge the values of posts on their own. Also, if you chose to censor posters, that is your prerogative; however, in the interest of fairness you should do so in a consistent manner, which you do not.

Sorry, but the policy of unsupported personal attacks on a nonpublic figure has been consistent from the beginning. Your post cited no evidence for some pretty wild accusations.
 

not a native,

With respect to Frederick Douglas, I guess you somehow missed this part of my last post:

"And while I'm sure that some escaped slaves escaped so that they could help others..."

That would include Mr. Douglas and many others. But surely you are not claiming that the main motivation for most escaped slaves was not to free themselves from the slavery, but rather to help others? Again, I'm sure many did so, Frederick Douglas is certainly one, Sojourner Truth is another great example, and there are many more. But the main reason to escape slavery was to escape slavery. This was breaking the law, and it was also the right thing to do. They were righteous lawbreakers, and on this it seems that we agree, do we not?

Of course you dodged one important point, which was that earlier you opined quite strongly that it was the height of arrogance to decide which laws should and shouldn't be obeyed, implying that all laws must be obeyed, whether or not a large number of people believes them to be fundamentally unjust or not, because we can't all just go around picking and choosing our laws.

And that's a valid point, but it runs up against real-world examples where it would produce a result that is so clearly unjust (at least it is clear now, in the example of escaped slaves) that the idea that everyone should just obey all laws all the time no matter their own conscience is exposed as a flawed, or at least incomplete moral system.

In your own case, you seem to be carving out an exception, or at least a distinction, for people who broke an unjust law in order to help others, not just themselves. Good, I agree, though I would go a bit farther, myself.

Even though this distinction/exception is not, as I explained above, really applicable to most escaped slaves, let's think for a moment about the distinction/exception itself and how it may apply to the situation of medical marijuana, which certainly remains illegal under federal law, and at the same time it certainly does provide real relief to real folks with some very serious medical conditions (notwithstanding the fact that no doubt there are some fakers, and some other folks who could obtain relief for their medical issues just as well from other remedies but just enjoy the "high").

So, if a bona fide medical patient with a real need for / benefit from medical cannabis is growing cannabis for themselves, within California law but contrary to federal law, and they grow a small surplus which goes to another bona fide medical patient, or to a clinic serving other bona fide patients, aren't they doing it both to help themselves, and to help others, much as with your example of an escaped slave who frees themselves, then uses that opportunity to free others too?

Leaving aside the big, greed-oriented commercial grows (and yes, those suck), lots of the small mom-and-pops growers in the county are in exactly that "helping themselves and also helping others" situation. they are resisting their own oppression and meeting their own medical needs, and in so doing they are also helping others obtain the medicine they need, and at most they make a very modest amount of money for the amount of work they must do and risk they must take.

Even Frederick Douglas "made a living" from his work as an abolitionist, so don't try to say that just because people get paid for growing medical pot for other patients (as provided for in California law) that this is not an analogous situation. Leaving aside your prejudices, it is quite analogous indeed.

Give it some thought anyway. Some of those "criminals" are in my opinion, "righteous lawbreakers" in the very same sense as those who covertly ran the underground railroad, for example.

Either way, the fact is that you, too, seem willing to give a pass to some law-breaking, you just want to draw the line in a different place on this particular issue. But don't get all high and mighty with your claim that its the height of arrogance to decide that some laws are unjust and shouldn't be followed. You are doing the same thing, you just don't seem to want to in this case.

When it comes right down to it, there are plenty of examples, escaped slaves being one, where the law is (or was) fundamentally wrong, and not obeying the law, either overtly or covertly is the only morally appropriate response.

In such cases it's not the height of arrogance, it's more like the essence of maintaining your humanity rather than mechanically bowing to the demands of unjust laws.
 

Erik said: "Sorry, but the policy of unsupported personal attacks on a nonpublic figure has been consistent from the beginning."

Actually you are inconsistent in your censoring, this example from your blog took but a few minutes to find:

"Ok Theo I will break it down for you. You seem to not get it.
Your friend Josh Hedlund was setting up LLCs to buy large parcels of land that could not be subdivided. He sold shares (pieces) of the LLC and the people who he sold the shares to were told they could/had to(?) grow weed to pay for the shares. They were given a “plot” of land to grow on. Josh got busted. His scam was discovered. Ok Theo? You with me? Well this scam opened the eyes of the feds and the state and the county and they brought in the IRS. They looked into these LLCs. Somebody in one of these agencies had the great idea to look to see if there were other LLCs buying large parcels of lane. Guess what Theo? There was 2000 acres in southern Humboldt/Northern Mendocino bought and placed into a LLC 2-3 years ago. Maybe more. You with me there Theo my man? So the feds/state/IRS pooled their resources and actually went to work. When people buy shares in an LLC there is a record. The feds/state/IRS looked into each person who was a “partner” (share holder) in the LLC. They looked into their tax records. They looked into their credit records. They looked into their phone records. Where did the money come from to buy into the LLC? What other places were these people involved in. Where did they live before they moved to “Paradise Acres” or whatever they called it? This is not brain surgery Theo. The feds/state/IRS also did some over flights and took pictures over the last two years of what was going on on the 2000 acres. New roads. Greenhouses. Some buildings. Trucks. Generators. The feds/state/IRS gathered all this info and it pointed to what they wanted it to point to. A cartel growing weed, and lots of it, for HUGE profit. The feds want to make this huge bust. They got em now. They haul in 450 of their best to go and show this cartel that the feds/state/IRS are not stupid. They hit all the addresses (the places where the “partners” lived before or still have or there their girlfriends live or where their parents live or just an address they gave for a contact address for the bank or post office or credit card or cell phone or whatever.) they found in their investigation and of course the 2000 acres. So the feds/state/IRS hit the 2000 acres but there is nothing there. Well, not nothing. But surely not what they expected. Maybe a few of the partners were growing bigger than they should have been. Probably most were selling some of their 215 weed to make ends meet. Surely they were not getting rich. There is no evidence of a classic cartel for sure. So far it looks like there are a bunch of people who were offered a way to buy some land that was not supposed to be subdivided and own a piece of the American dream. They probably should have known better. But they probably cannot even spell cartel. So now the feds/state/IRS will take all the info they found and confirm their guess while they were here that they fucked up. They didn’t find the BIG cartel that they were sure was happening right there in Hippiville. Probably nobody went up there to see what was really happening during their 2 year investigation. That might not stop them though. They can make a semi innocent land endeavor look like the Cali Cartel if they try hard enough. Hopefully they will see this for what we are being told it is by the people who live there and the people who know the people who live there. Of course maybe it was not as innocent as we would like. After all, Josh Hedland was by no means innocent of being an asshole. My guess is that whoever set up this LLC scam figured it out from Josh Hedland. Maybe Josh was involved? Maybe Josh just showed the guy the ropes.
These people, maybe innocently, brought the heat down on themselves. I feel sorry for them. We all just want to live. There are some very big greedy assholes out there in the hills and they should back off. There are also some people who only want to make a living. Not get rich. Make a living. As for the younger people who are being stupid somebody should pull them aside and tell them to get a clue.
Anyway that is the way I see it.
Oh by the way, it looks like the feds/state/IRS only were collecting info. Not plants. They probably left the plants right where they found them.

Fri Jun 27, 04:50:00 PM




Ok Theo I will break it down for you. You seem to not get it.
Your friend Josh Hedlund was setting up LLCs to buy large parcels of land that could not be subdivided. He sold shares (pieces) of the LLC and the people who he sold the shares to were told they could/had to(?) grow weed to pay for the shares. They were given a “plot” of land to grow on. Josh got busted. His scam was discovered. Ok Theo? You with me? Well this scam opened the eyes of the feds and the state and the county and they brought in the IRS. They looked into these LLCs. Somebody in one of these agencies had the great idea to look to see if there were other LLCs buying large parcels of lane. Guess what Theo? There was 2000 acres in southern Humboldt/Northern Mendocino bought and placed into a LLC 2-3 years ago. Maybe more. You with me there Theo my man? So the feds/state/IRS pooled their resources and actually went to work. When people buy shares in an LLC there is a record. The feds/state/IRS looked into each person who was a “partner” (share holder) in the LLC. They looked into their tax records. They looked into their credit records. They looked into their phone records. Where did the money come from to buy into the LLC? What other places were these people involved in. Where did they live before they moved to “Paradise Acres” or whatever they called it? This is not brain surgery Theo. The feds/state/IRS also did some over flights and took pictures over the last two years of what was going on on the 2000 acres. New roads. Greenhouses. Some buildings. Trucks. Generators. The feds/state/IRS gathered all this info and it pointed to what they wanted it to point to. A cartel growing weed, and lots of it, for HUGE profit. The feds want to make this huge bust. They got em now. They haul in 450 of their best to go and show this cartel that the feds/state/IRS are not stupid. They hit all the addresses (the places where the “partners” lived before or still have or there their girlfriends live or where their parents live or just an address they gave for a contact address for the bank or post office or credit card or cell phone or whatever.) they found in their investigation and of course the 2000 acres. So the feds/state/IRS hit the 2000 acres but there is nothing there. Well, not nothing. But surely not what they expected. Maybe a few of the partners were growing bigger than they should have been. Probably most were selling some of their 215 weed to make ends meet. Surely they were not getting rich. There is no evidence of a classic cartel for sure. So far it looks like there are a bunch of people who were offered a way to buy some land that was not supposed to be subdivided and own a piece of the American dream. They probably should have known better. But they probably cannot even spell cartel. So now the feds/state/IRS will take all the info they found and confirm their guess while they were here that they fucked up. They didn’t find the BIG cartel that they were sure was happening right there in Hippiville. Probably nobody went up there to see what was really happening during their 2 year investigation. That might not stop them though. They can make a semi innocent land endeavor look like the Cali Cartel if they try hard enough. Hopefully they will see this for what we are being told it is by the people who live there and the people who know the people who live there. Of course maybe it was not as innocent as we would like. After all, Josh Hedland was by no means innocent of being an asshole. My guess is that whoever set up this LLC scam figured it out from Josh Hedland. Maybe Josh was involved? Maybe Josh just showed the guy the ropes.
These people, maybe innocently, brought the heat down on themselves. I feel sorry for them. We all just want to live. There are some very big greedy assholes out there in the hills and they should back off. There are also some people who only want to make a living. Not get rich. Make a living. As for the younger people who are being stupid somebody should pull them aside and tell them to get a clue.
Anyway that is the way I see it.
Oh by the way, it looks like the feds/state/IRS only were collecting info. Not plants. They probably left the plants right where they found them."

Fri Jun 27, 04:50:00 PM


Erik said:
"Your post cited no evidence for some pretty wild accusations."

I think not, but since you deleted it we can't really debate that. Can we? Hey, if he is a client or a friend just say so, that would make more sense.
 

sorry, didn't mean to double post that quote.
 

Bravo 12:59! Bulls eye!!
 

Beowulf - well, I guess I missed that one.

I don't know Josh personally. I have advised several clients on the opposite side of him. I'm hardly a fan of his project. But some of your allegations were pretty harsh without anything to back them up.

LLC or corporate structured land owership plans aren't necessarily a "scam." It's simply my opinion that they are a bad investment. I don't know what Josh's or "Buddha's" intentions were. But a bad deal is not necessarily a "scam."
 

I guess you missed this one too?

Anonymous said...
If the feds got some of there super intel from Ed Sheilds who was busted 3 times starting 3 years ago it stands to reason he would rat on these folks. He probably did equiptment work for them and any real players in the dope world would never deal with a puss like Sheilds who buy the way ratted out his own old lady hoping to avoid punishment. Ed Sheilds is a piss poor human,a bad logger and has all the criteria to make a good drug cop.
Thu Jun 26, 10:57:00 AM
 

as usual, factual and logical arguments, such as those at 12:59make "not a native" disappear. no big surprise there.
 

Anon,
I agree that breaking laws for ethical reasons is defenseable. My point is that growers aren't doing that, they make their own laws as part of their "outlaw" culture.

The primary reason people grow pot is to make money, not to help others or protest unjust laws. Its purely a criminal moneymaking enterprise. Maybe years ago it wasn't, but today it is.

That's proven because growers sell their pot at blackmarket prices. If they were really out to help others, they would grow clearly within 215 boundaries(which eliminates their legal risk). And they would sell only to ill people with 215s who they have a relationship with and at prices that reflect their costs for materials and expenses plus a markup in line with other similar specialty agricultural products, like herbs and spices. If you believe 215 isn't just a sham to let anyone use pot, then its purpose is to allow ill people to get pot safely and at a reasonable cost. So, growers don't pass the morality test of breaking the law with good intention.

But, show me a grower who isn't selling at blackmarket prices and to individuals in amounts they can reasonably use, and I'll support their cause as a disobedience of conscience, not a criminal act.

The business of ma 'n pa is just a smokescreen of saying "I get to choose the criminals I like and give them a pass and choose the ones I don't like and call them 'greedy'". Its setting yourself up as the arbitrary and sole decider without objective standards. Thats not just disobeying a law, its making your up your own law. By just what process is your decision made? Basically you're advocating for criminal culture, just like the mafia that is a law unto itself. Growers should all be judged by the same standards but you assert you can decide who's "good" and and who's "bad".

That ties into the point you've ignored of how growing fosters an "outlaw" culture of suspicion that makes people fearful and socially isolated. That's real harm to the community caused by criminal growing.

This thread is about the recent raids. The Government will be accountable to show, in open court, exactly why those people are charged. And you can bet they won't be charged with "greed" and the accused won't defend themselves as being "ma 'n pa".
 

The neologism 'mom n pop growers' is so lame. Next I expect them to be telling us that they have 'family values'.
 

"as usual, factual and logical arguments, such as those at 12:59make "not a native" disappear. no big surprise there."

Spin can't take out reason. But you can keep trying.
 

Don't bother about anon 12:59, He's a coward, posts using different names, often in response to his own posts. Just another troll pot grower trying to deflect attention away from his scene. He's a poster child of outlaw culture.
 

There you go again, 'not a native,' just making stuff up, claiming facts about other posters that are untrue, not to mention without evidence.

I'm not growing any pot. The fact that you want to believe that I must be a pot grower/dealer is interesting, but ultimately irrelevant to the discussion (and is a false belief to begin with, just so you know) Of course you can say, well, you're anonymous, so there's no way to confirm that - to which I could answer, how do I know you're not a cop? The answer to both is that we don't. The difference is that I'm not making evdence-free claims about you, but
you for some reason seem to need to lean on that groundless belief to make sense of the fact that I disagrees with you. Waste of time. Kid stuff.

Posting answers to my own questions? Umm, nope. Same with your paranoid fantasies about multiple identities. So right there you've made three completely false claims about me, to no real effect. What's the point of that? If you can't effectively refute my arguments or, alternatively, just agree to disagree on certain points, the groundless ad hominem attacks aren't helping you any, they just make you appear to be floundering and flailing about in your vain attempt to undermine my credibility. You're wasting your time, but hey, I guess that's your business.
 

The fact is that growing cannabis for personal medical use and for the use of other patients is clearly legal under California law, but still illegal under federal law, as subjects of the recent raid learned the hard way.

Also, receiving compensation for growing for another patient is specifically allowed under California but not under federal law. This was in Senate Bill 420, and remains the law, despite a court striking down another, "severable" section of SB 420 that attempted to establish limits of plant numbers (which is being appealed by the state AG anyway).

When escaped slaves reached some of the northern states, they were in a very similar position, legally, to today's legit 215 growers: It was perfectly legal for them to be free under the laws of those northern states, but the federal Fugitive Slave Act still made them vulnerable to re-enslavement. This is why the fugitive slaves had to be careful not to be captured later and ordered returned to the South.

And no doubt this created an "unhealthy outlaw culture" to some extent, but the solution was not for them to stay in slavery, but rather to abolish the institution of slavery.

Similarly, continuing federal prohibition of cannabis cultivation certainly creates a lot of problems associated with a black market, "grey market" (as in legal at the state and local level, illegal at the federal level, with the associated resource issues that lead to highly selective and sometimes politicized "selective enforcement") and an "outlaw culture." But again, the solution is to end the mostly unenforceable, rather pointless federal prohibition.

I'd say we're still about a decade or two away. But with legit 215 growing for personal use and small-scale provision to other legit 215 users now so common in California, there's no putting the genie back in the bottle. You're going to have to deal with the reality of this, and soon with the reality of overall decriminalization.

The next step down this road will come if Obama is elected and we are able to hold him to his pledge to have the D.E.A., F.B.I., and so on, respect state medical marijuana laws.

The step after that will be in Congress, to codify the change of executive policy. After all or nearly all states have adopted their own versions of 215 (and residents notice that the sky is not falling after all) I think we'll see full legalization within a decade.

More and more people, whether they use marijuana or not, are waking up to the fact that virtually all the problems that arise from the "pot trade" are really problems caused by prohibition, not pot itself. And that includes the "outlaw culture" that you are so concerned about.
 

You are holding onto an ideal and an era that has passed. I suggest you get on the bus before you are left in the middle of nowhere with the natives. I'll defend the growers when they actually start doing something for the community besides intimidating it into being their hole in the wall.
 

Actually the era that is passing away now is the era or Prohibition. If you think growers, large and small, don't contribute anything to the community, you're seriously delusional. Lots of property taxes, sales taxes, and yes, for the 215 growers, income taxes as well. This county, and especially sohum, would be in a much worse economic slump without our number one agricultural crop bringing in so many dollars from around the state. Sure, there a problems, some serious ones, but nearly all of them can be traced to prohibition, not the marijuana growing itself.

In 20 years your prohibitionist view will seem as quaint, and as ridiculous, as the Lady's Temperence League does now, many decades after the death of another ill-conceived prohibition, that of alcohol prohibition. Then, as now, it was the prohibition itself that leads to the more serious societal problems.

So, keep on hating people you don't even know, even as you and those who have your narrow point of view continue to fade away. Whatever gets you through the night, I suppose.
 

Contribute? In the service of their own good will and for guilt relief sure they do. They shop and buy here. They inflate our prices and change what goods stores carry. They buy up land and make prices go crazy so they are out of reach of the common man. They build gates and booby traps, install bells and whistles and every type of early warning device you can get your hands on so no one will even walk in the forest any longer. Many feign poverty and take their wallets out only after they have flown to Europe. There are two sides to your spin kittenchops.
 

but they do manage to supply us with more dollars for our police force and good paying jobs for the under the table realitors.
 

Well then that is the difference between you and I Ms Lawyer Lady. I don't hate anyone but I don't like what they are doing to the community and I am going to write, vote, and talk about it regardless of your threats and intimidation.
 

Ms Lawyer Lady? Are you sure?
 

My family was driven out of our home by threats and actual attacks from our neighborhood pot growers.

Many are filthy rich and they do not pay taxes at all. Ever.
 

12:55,
if that is true, lets hear some details.......
 

You want "details?" Those 50K 4X4 pot-trucks all over town should tell you something. So should the huge pot estates in the hills. So should the automatic gunfire at all hours of the day and night. So should the foreign "junkets" to pig out on whores and bring heroin and cocaine back to the USA. So should the dead and burned out children...