Thursday, July 03, 2008
Complaints for forfeiture
Somebody just drew my attention to the Times Standard coverage. The article contains addresses and some names.
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Eric:
If the 2000 acres are forfeited and sold at auction, does the couple in Fortuna carrying the paper lose out? I guess they are owed about $1.5 million plus.
If the 2000 acres are forfeited and sold at auction, does the couple in Fortuna carrying the paper lose out? I guess they are owed about $1.5 million plus.
# posted by 
: Thu Jul 03, 11:54:00 AM
: Thu Jul 03, 11:54:00 AM
"does the couple in Fortuna carrying the paper lose out?".
I believe they do. That's one of the big complaints about these asset forfeiture deals. People can have their property seized even if they didn't know it was being used for criminal acts.
I believe that, legally, the government could seize the grow houses around the county despite the landlords knowing nothing about that activity. Apparently they don't do that very often up here but I believe they can.
I believe they do. That's one of the big complaints about these asset forfeiture deals. People can have their property seized even if they didn't know it was being used for criminal acts.
I believe that, legally, the government could seize the grow houses around the county despite the landlords knowing nothing about that activity. Apparently they don't do that very often up here but I believe they can.
What did they take as collateral? If they took his personal word and handshake they will get screwed. The bank will have to pay off if it secured the loan.
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 12:37:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 12:37:00 PM
And don't forget each shareholder is a conspirator too, so each of those 27 raided homes also gets seized for the auction hopper. Maybe the sweep of 'Shock and Awe' does pay for itself?
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 01:02:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 01:02:00 PM
This is soooo funny.
1. If you think that this is a secured loan - well then that is hysterical.
2. In these small corps and llc's it will be a breeze for the feds to establish their case using the civil standard applicable to asset forfeiture.
Frankly, I have not laughed so hard in years. But then again, I work in a legal job, pay taxes and don't break laws.
I say - I hope the feds take a shit load of property from these infidels and because that is the only way to get this shit to stop.
1. If you think that this is a secured loan - well then that is hysterical.
2. In these small corps and llc's it will be a breeze for the feds to establish their case using the civil standard applicable to asset forfeiture.
Frankly, I have not laughed so hard in years. But then again, I work in a legal job, pay taxes and don't break laws.
I say - I hope the feds take a shit load of property from these infidels and because that is the only way to get this shit to stop.
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 01:39:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 01:39:00 PM
As Thadeus notes, "The complaints [were] first reported in the North Coast Journal..." Kudos to Heidi who dug this info out of the courthouse.
Oh I am so lmao.
Here is what it takes to “dig” this info up.
1) call the court clerks office
2) ask for the civil division
3) ask for any cases filed (specify period of time) with the “U.S.” as plaintiff.
Takes probably 5 minutes and one phone call.
Here is what it takes to “dig” this info up.
1) call the court clerks office
2) ask for the civil division
3) ask for any cases filed (specify period of time) with the “U.S.” as plaintiff.
Takes probably 5 minutes and one phone call.
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 02:31:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 02:31:00 PM
If the 2000 acres are forfeited and sold at auction, does the couple in Fortuna carrying the paper lose out? I guess they are owed about $1.5 million plus.
Depends on a lot of things. Generally you can work a deal. But I don't know enough about this case to comment meaningfully.
Depends on a lot of things. Generally you can work a deal. But I don't know enough about this case to comment meaningfully.
From the NCJ, it appears the downpayment was some $700,000., purchase price $2.4Million. Not sure which parcels that includes.
I defer to expert's but I think the sales are subject to prior liens, as long as the lienholder isn't criminally implicated. From the DOJ website(my bolding):
"The Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 established the Department of Justice Assets Forfeiture Fund to receive the proceeds of forfeiture and to pay the costs associated with such forfeitures, including the costs of managing and disposing of property, ,satisfying valid liens, mortgages, and other innocent owner claims, and costs associated with accomplishing the legal forfeiture of the property."
I've clipped the deal details from the Northcost Journal
"County and state records reveal that the president of Lost Paradise Land Corp. is Robert Juan, 36; Graeson Prescott, 37, of Eureka, is the treasurer, and Brendon Clarke, 46, Loleta, is the secretary. (Clarke is not mentioned in the complaint.) The corporation bought the properties in 2004 from Eddie and Diana Mendes of Fortuna, who bought them from Hawthorne Timber Co. in 2003. (Hawthorne bought them from North American Timber, which bought them from Georgia-Pacific). Sayers, 37, of Whitethorn — named in the complaint as co-owner along with Prescott of one of the properties targeted — is not listed as a corporation officer.
Reached by phone at home Saturday, Diana Mendes at first was reluctant to reveal her identity. But then she said she had followed the sweep in the newspaper and “was freaked out.” She said she and her husband were not targeted in the investigation and that they have no involvement with Lost Paradise other than that they are still receiving payment for the properties on two notes.
Records show in 2004 Lost Paradise put down roughly $703,000 for the properties and took out two loans in the amount of $1.4 million and $300,000 — both from the Mendes — based on the document transfer tax."
I defer to expert's but I think the sales are subject to prior liens, as long as the lienholder isn't criminally implicated. From the DOJ website(my bolding):
"The Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 established the Department of Justice Assets Forfeiture Fund to receive the proceeds of forfeiture and to pay the costs associated with such forfeitures, including the costs of managing and disposing of property, ,satisfying valid liens, mortgages, and other innocent owner claims, and costs associated with accomplishing the legal forfeiture of the property."
I've clipped the deal details from the Northcost Journal
"County and state records reveal that the president of Lost Paradise Land Corp. is Robert Juan, 36; Graeson Prescott, 37, of Eureka, is the treasurer, and Brendon Clarke, 46, Loleta, is the secretary. (Clarke is not mentioned in the complaint.) The corporation bought the properties in 2004 from Eddie and Diana Mendes of Fortuna, who bought them from Hawthorne Timber Co. in 2003. (Hawthorne bought them from North American Timber, which bought them from Georgia-Pacific). Sayers, 37, of Whitethorn — named in the complaint as co-owner along with Prescott of one of the properties targeted — is not listed as a corporation officer.
Reached by phone at home Saturday, Diana Mendes at first was reluctant to reveal her identity. But then she said she had followed the sweep in the newspaper and “was freaked out.” She said she and her husband were not targeted in the investigation and that they have no involvement with Lost Paradise other than that they are still receiving payment for the properties on two notes.
Records show in 2004 Lost Paradise put down roughly $703,000 for the properties and took out two loans in the amount of $1.4 million and $300,000 — both from the Mendes — based on the document transfer tax."
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 03:31:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 03:31:00 PM
I thought it was Mendes logging. We know who is behind Mendes Logging.
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 04:04:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 04:04:00 PM
"What a load of ill-informed horseshit and supposition!"
I am just a product of the blogs what can I say.
I am just a product of the blogs what can I say.
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 05:12:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 05:12:00 PM
note 1:39's use of the word "infidel." i suppose next it'll be a "crusade."
myob
myob
# posted by : Thu Jul 03, 06:10:00 PM
: Thu Jul 03, 06:10:00 PM
WOW!
Eric, I certainly did'nt see such a deliberate misrepresentation of where Estelle stands with regards to big boxes in Fortuna.
Your guest opinion in the NCJ was not so dandy. Stating that Estelle is in favor of big box development in Fortuna is a blatant lie.
Estelle's position has ALWAYS been that it is up to the citizens of Fortuna and Fortuna City Government to be the arbiters of what happens regarding that type of development.
I'm disappointed in you, man. You seem like more of a stand up guy than that.
Eric, I certainly did'nt see such a deliberate misrepresentation of where Estelle stands with regards to big boxes in Fortuna.
Your guest opinion in the NCJ was not so dandy. Stating that Estelle is in favor of big box development in Fortuna is a blatant lie.
Estelle's position has ALWAYS been that it is up to the citizens of Fortuna and Fortuna City Government to be the arbiters of what happens regarding that type of development.
I'm disappointed in you, man. You seem like more of a stand up guy than that.
# posted by : Fri Jul 04, 10:23:00 AM
: Fri Jul 04, 10:23:00 AM
eric,
you usually delete comments with serious allegations made against named individuals by anonymous accusers, when there is no evidence cited.
7/3 @ 5:58 seems to fit that description.
this guy robert juan, or "buddah" may well be bad news. i've heard that myself from people whose judgement i trust. but the 5:58 accusations are very serious, and absolutely no evidence is provided.
i suggest a delete until such time as 5:58 comes back with some evidence.
you usually delete comments with serious allegations made against named individuals by anonymous accusers, when there is no evidence cited.
7/3 @ 5:58 seems to fit that description.
this guy robert juan, or "buddah" may well be bad news. i've heard that myself from people whose judgement i trust. but the 5:58 accusations are very serious, and absolutely no evidence is provided.
i suggest a delete until such time as 5:58 comes back with some evidence.
# posted by : Fri Jul 04, 10:59:00 AM
: Fri Jul 04, 10:59:00 AM
Estelle's position has ALWAYS been that it is up to the citizens of Fortuna and Fortuna City Government to be the arbiters of what happens regarding that type of development.
Yes, that's part of the "you do your thing and I'll do my thing" twist in recent "rural" progressive politics, but in fact in at least two debates she has said "some big boxes are better than others." Only in the thread below have I been led to understand that it means she would oppose WalMart, but would support Home Depot, Fred Meyers, etc.
Well, I don't believe that WalMart has even been on the table as for them it's Eureka or nothing. The proposal I am aware of includes Lowes and a couple of others, so much that the backers of the Marina Center Project are actually in somewhat of a competition since the County could not accommodate both a Lowes in Fortuna and a Home Depot in Eureka (assuming it can accommodate either).
Hey, if I'm misinterpreting her vague public statements on the matter, she could easily clear them up. But she's running for office and trying to appeal to different groups of voters. I'm sympathetic to that pressure, but I'm an old hand at politics. I know how to read public statements. And she is trying to pull together a coalition of Sohum and "property rights" people in Fortuna. Maybe she'll succeed.
In the meantime, I was asked to comment on my view of the local political situation and I did so. If Estelle opposes a big box development in Fortuna, or even if she's neutral on the subject, she can say so. If, as she says, she supports some big boxes and not others, well, that statement is begging for clarification.
Yes, that's part of the "you do your thing and I'll do my thing" twist in recent "rural" progressive politics, but in fact in at least two debates she has said "some big boxes are better than others." Only in the thread below have I been led to understand that it means she would oppose WalMart, but would support Home Depot, Fred Meyers, etc.
Well, I don't believe that WalMart has even been on the table as for them it's Eureka or nothing. The proposal I am aware of includes Lowes and a couple of others, so much that the backers of the Marina Center Project are actually in somewhat of a competition since the County could not accommodate both a Lowes in Fortuna and a Home Depot in Eureka (assuming it can accommodate either).
Hey, if I'm misinterpreting her vague public statements on the matter, she could easily clear them up. But she's running for office and trying to appeal to different groups of voters. I'm sympathetic to that pressure, but I'm an old hand at politics. I know how to read public statements. And she is trying to pull together a coalition of Sohum and "property rights" people in Fortuna. Maybe she'll succeed.
In the meantime, I was asked to comment on my view of the local political situation and I did so. If Estelle opposes a big box development in Fortuna, or even if she's neutral on the subject, she can say so. If, as she says, she supports some big boxes and not others, well, that statement is begging for clarification.
estelle's exact words at one of the debates was "it depends on what kind of big box". All big boxes are equal and bad news, period. Any big box will close down small, independently owned, local stores. She is really using the tactic of vagueness to a tee.
# posted by : Fri Jul 04, 12:52:00 PM
: Fri Jul 04, 12:52:00 PM
Of course no one is taking on the fast food chains to help save Mom and Pop Restaurants or the gas chains to get Mom and Pop gas stations going again. What about the automotive industry why should Les Schwab be allowed in town. What about Staples? What about Target? Where does the argument begin and where does it end and what the hell is the reality of the economics. I would post more but I am not going to be the one to educate Estelle's crew.
# posted by : Fri Jul 04, 02:45:00 PM
: Fri Jul 04, 02:45:00 PM
What we seem to have on the real estate forfeiture front is a bunch of Lis Pendins filed (Eric can tell you what that means) by the Feds on various people's homes not including the lands that were the focus of the raids.
Those lands are probably lost due to the disruption in the finances and lives of the those people trying to buy parcels via being shareholders in the corporation. As far as I can see everyone is too shell-shocked to take any effective action to save those lands from default. This means a bunch of innocent people are going to lose substantial amounts of money because they got into a very risky real-estate deal (not risky due to pot, just a risky way to buy land).
The off-site homes are another situation. They will probably not financially default, and then its case by case defenses, some of which will work.
Also the Feds having no conspiracy to simplify their prosecutions, will probably dump most of it to the county for State prosecutions.
Those lands are probably lost due to the disruption in the finances and lives of the those people trying to buy parcels via being shareholders in the corporation. As far as I can see everyone is too shell-shocked to take any effective action to save those lands from default. This means a bunch of innocent people are going to lose substantial amounts of money because they got into a very risky real-estate deal (not risky due to pot, just a risky way to buy land).
The off-site homes are another situation. They will probably not financially default, and then its case by case defenses, some of which will work.
Also the Feds having no conspiracy to simplify their prosecutions, will probably dump most of it to the county for State prosecutions.
# posted by : Sat Jul 05, 12:52:00 PM
: Sat Jul 05, 12:52:00 PM
How is it Estelle's business what Fortuna does or doesn't do as far as a so called big box store? It's fine for you rich folks to shop at small specialty stores (which I doubt you even do) but we of little means just plain can't afford it. We need the deals to just live, if we can even get to them. I think it's a Bogus issue and I think Estelle takes the right approach.
# posted by : Sat Jul 05, 06:39:00 PM
: Sat Jul 05, 06:39:00 PM
It's Estelle's business because it affects everybody. We aren't islands, not as individuals and not as cities.
# posted by : Sat Jul 05, 07:03:00 PM
: Sat Jul 05, 07:03:00 PM
Yes but what will she or Clif be able to do about it? I can't remember a supervisor stopping or starting commerce.
# posted by : Sat Jul 05, 07:24:00 PM
: Sat Jul 05, 07:24:00 PM
Yes but what will she or Clif be able to do about it?
If you have to ask you've obviously never been politically active. Start with reading Saul Alinsky. The first step in any campaign for political change is to speak up, and when community leaders speak the voices are amplified.
If you have to ask you've obviously never been politically active. Start with reading Saul Alinsky. The first step in any campaign for political change is to speak up, and when community leaders speak the voices are amplified.
# posted by : Sat Jul 05, 08:29:00 PM
: Sat Jul 05, 08:29:00 PM
I am as working class as it gets and I would never agree with Walmart coming into town even though the prices might be better. It is like the Pied Piper leading the naive and starving children to the river. They come in with one agenda in rural areas and once that is accomplished they morph into a creature that destroys the working class choices. Basically you end up with Walmart style, Walmart food, Walmart working wages, Walmart decor, and Walmart quality. Why? Because eventually Mom and Pop can't compete against it.
Now you want to argue Winco and that is a different argument. It is so provincial to lump them all under the category of "Big Box". That is like putting Google into the bag of goods with Enron.
Now you want to argue Winco and that is a different argument. It is so provincial to lump them all under the category of "Big Box". That is like putting Google into the bag of goods with Enron.
# posted by : Sat Jul 05, 10:13:00 PM
: Sat Jul 05, 10:13:00 PM
8:29 you are assuming Humboldt leaders are educated and the cream of the crop. News update: Many are corrupt and running a one agenda political career called "What can I do for you that will make me get reelected and you money." They are collectively a group of spineless jellyfish in my opinion.
# posted by : Sat Jul 05, 10:16:00 PM
: Sat Jul 05, 10:16:00 PM
So does that mean we all throw up our hands in defeat, or we try to grab what we can like "they" do? Remember Pogo? "We have met the enemy, and he is us." Our only rational choice is to keep working toward the common good.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 09:23:00 AM
: Sun Jul 06, 09:23:00 AM
We need a Wallmart here to break the upward price spiral enforced by greedy local merchants. Those of us who don't grow Pot can't afford these prices!
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 04:06:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 04:06:00 PM
We need a Wallmart here to break the upward price spiral enforced by greedy local merchants.
And to lower wages. Don't forget about lowering the wages!
And to lower wages. Don't forget about lowering the wages!
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 05:04:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 05:04:00 PM
With a 9% unempoyment rate, don't talk to me about "lower wages." What wages?
Your point should be that Wallmart will also bring much needed employment.
Your point should be that Wallmart will also bring much needed employment.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 05:35:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 05:35:00 PM
Much needed employment and lots of Chinese toys contaminated with lead.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 05:43:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 05:43:00 PM
Sounds like a pot grower. You don't want to see anyone but you and your cronies make a living.
Meanwhile, you sell drugs to children who end up dead.
Meanwhile, you sell drugs to children who end up dead.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 05:56:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 05:56:00 PM
"Much needed employment and lots of Chinese toys contaminated with lead."
Walmart lowers the cost to the consumer. People charging big prices don't have to lower their costs unless they are also in the market of lowest price leader. There are a few exceptions. As a consumer you have gained when you leave the store but you have lost when the tax bill comes in for your county and Walmart's employees are relying on county services because they make minimum wage.
And the Chinese lead thing was American in its roots. Of course the press never adequately came back and explained that but hey they are just doing their job.
Walmart lowers the cost to the consumer. People charging big prices don't have to lower their costs unless they are also in the market of lowest price leader. There are a few exceptions. As a consumer you have gained when you leave the store but you have lost when the tax bill comes in for your county and Walmart's employees are relying on county services because they make minimum wage.
And the Chinese lead thing was American in its roots. Of course the press never adequately came back and explained that but hey they are just doing their job.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 06:12:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 06:12:00 PM
Greedy local merchants? Point out to me, please, the local merchants who are getting rich. Most local merchants barely make ends meet, paying way higher costs than the big boys because they buy in smaller quantities, and donating a raffle item to every good cause in town.
I know it's a scary time, but we're never going to get out of this mess if we let Sam Walton and his ilk convince us that their business model gives us real bargains AND gives them billions upon billions in largely untaxed profits.
News flash: Hurwitz, the Waltons, the Bushes, and even companionable old Warren Buffet are not our friends.
I know it's a scary time, but we're never going to get out of this mess if we let Sam Walton and his ilk convince us that their business model gives us real bargains AND gives them billions upon billions in largely untaxed profits.
News flash: Hurwitz, the Waltons, the Bushes, and even companionable old Warren Buffet are not our friends.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 06:50:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 06:50:00 PM
Like media consolidation, that is what Wal-Mart and the big boxes are about. Taking all the buying power (and consumer choices) and placing it into one "groups" hands, so that there are no choices to shop, for food, or whatever else, because they all went out of business, thanks to Wal-Mart and the other big boxes.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 07:03:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 07:03:00 PM
You can pay through the nose. I have a family to support. And I work for a living.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 07:07:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 07:07:00 PM
5:56pm;
You are so one dimensional in your thinking. You are wrong about me. I am a retired business owner and a grandparent who teaches my grandchildren how to earn their way in this world.
I would ask for an apology but I don't believe you are capable of that.
You are so one dimensional in your thinking. You are wrong about me. I am a retired business owner and a grandparent who teaches my grandchildren how to earn their way in this world.
I would ask for an apology but I don't believe you are capable of that.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 07:25:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 07:25:00 PM
You can pay through the nose. I have a family to support. And I work for a living.
So do many retail workers.
So do many retail workers.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 09:02:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 09:02:00 PM
Your point should be that Wallmart will also bring much needed employment.
Nope. The net impact of a big box, particularly WalMart, in any local economy, is the loss of jobs. Every time. If not, then the big box cannot flourish. They have to eliminate competition and they invariably replace it with lower paid and fewer employees.
But it's not your job in jeopardy, right? As long as you save 30 cents on a Chinese made sweater, who cares?
Nope. The net impact of a big box, particularly WalMart, in any local economy, is the loss of jobs. Every time. If not, then the big box cannot flourish. They have to eliminate competition and they invariably replace it with lower paid and fewer employees.
But it's not your job in jeopardy, right? As long as you save 30 cents on a Chinese made sweater, who cares?
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 09:07:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 09:07:00 PM
VOTE CLIF a candidate who supports the small business man/woman.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 09:22:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 09:22:00 PM
You don't have the right to deny a Humboldt County Wallmart to other people.
If you don't want to shop there, you are free to go elsewhere and pay more for the same thing.
If you don't want to shop there, you are free to go elsewhere and pay more for the same thing.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 10:16:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 10:16:00 PM
"You are so one dimensional in your thinking. You are wrong about me. I am a retired business owner and a grandparent who teaches my grandchildren how to earn their way in this world.
I would ask for an apology but I don't believe you are capable of that."
In other words, you made yours and retired. Now you're either too inflexible or too selfish to help others who have less than you do and simply cannot afford the jacked up prices we are forced to pay locally.
I would ask for an apology but I don't believe you are capable of that."
In other words, you made yours and retired. Now you're either too inflexible or too selfish to help others who have less than you do and simply cannot afford the jacked up prices we are forced to pay locally.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 10:32:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 10:32:00 PM
You don't have the right to deny a Humboldt County Wallmart to other people.
Actually, we do. And did. Democracy's a bitch, huh?
Actually, we do. And did. Democracy's a bitch, huh?
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 11:07:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 11:07:00 PM
We'll see. In the end the vast majority of working people who are fed up with Jacked up prices will ram a Wallmart down your elitist throat.
# posted by : Sun Jul 06, 11:25:00 PM
: Sun Jul 06, 11:25:00 PM
WalMart isn't interested unless they can get that variance they wanted 10 years ago. Doesn't seem to be in the cards, unless perhaps the proposed Home Depot fails and Security National brings in WalMart on whatever variance they get.
Don't see that happening however. And SN doesn't have any variances yet.
Don't see that happening however. And SN doesn't have any variances yet.
Within five years we'll have a Wallmart, the deep water port and the railroad.
It's called progress.
It's called progress.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 12:12:00 AM
: Mon Jul 07, 12:12:00 AM
No, that's news to you. Walmart is an active development partner.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 12:46:00 AM
: Mon Jul 07, 12:46:00 AM
"We'll see. In the end the vast majority of working people who are fed up with Jacked up prices will ram a Wallmart down your elitist throat."
This is what disturbs me. It is really ramming it down the working class throat only like good politicians they have convinced the working class that once more they are being deprived and so the little working class puppets will jump up on the table up and down repeatedly demanding their just rewards, lower prices. In reality the working class will pick up this tab and the elite will shelter themselves in the dividend payment from holding stock in the corporation. Hillary at one time held Walmart stock. Their board of directors reads like a program for a neocon republican speaking convention.
Fools till the end. It is like voting against raising money for public education and schools and cutting off the nose in spite of your face.
The neoconservative movement doesn't have to make logical arguments all they have to do is understand your group psychology and lack of private school education and they can bag you every time. And they need to be willing to lie.
This is what disturbs me. It is really ramming it down the working class throat only like good politicians they have convinced the working class that once more they are being deprived and so the little working class puppets will jump up on the table up and down repeatedly demanding their just rewards, lower prices. In reality the working class will pick up this tab and the elite will shelter themselves in the dividend payment from holding stock in the corporation. Hillary at one time held Walmart stock. Their board of directors reads like a program for a neocon republican speaking convention.
Fools till the end. It is like voting against raising money for public education and schools and cutting off the nose in spite of your face.
The neoconservative movement doesn't have to make logical arguments all they have to do is understand your group psychology and lack of private school education and they can bag you every time. And they need to be willing to lie.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 04:06:00 AM
: Mon Jul 07, 04:06:00 AM
Is it just me or does the
agitated pro Wal Mart blogger sound eerily similar to the over the top Stephen, without the religious rhetoric?
agitated pro Wal Mart blogger sound eerily similar to the over the top Stephen, without the religious rhetoric?
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 06:15:00 AM
: Mon Jul 07, 06:15:00 AM
Spare me the "evil corportation" rant. We are not communists in this country. If that's your preference, move to North Korea.
You obviously want to destroy any successful business enterprise.
You obviously want to destroy any successful business enterprise.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 07:35:00 AM
: Mon Jul 07, 07:35:00 AM
"As long as you save 30 cents on a Chinese made sweater, who cares?"
The actual savings, as you know, are often in the 60% range. On a larger purchase, such as a set of kitchen appliances, this makes all the difference to working people like me. Furthermore, the warranty is actually honored.
Wal-Mart is an essential resource for working people.
E.F.
The actual savings, as you know, are often in the 60% range. On a larger purchase, such as a set of kitchen appliances, this makes all the difference to working people like me. Furthermore, the warranty is actually honored.
Wal-Mart is an essential resource for working people.
E.F.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 08:35:00 AM
: Mon Jul 07, 08:35:00 AM
Spare me the "evil corportation" rant. We are not communists in this country. If that's your preference, move to North Korea.
I note you didn't say "move to China."
I note you didn't say "move to China."
I hate to bring it up but those products you think you are making those kind of savings on are most likely being built in third world or beginning industrialized countries. The environmental costs you should be paying as a consumer are then shoved off onto a poor country to clean up long after your stove is used up and you are on to a new one.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 11:30:00 AM
: Mon Jul 07, 11:30:00 AM
Another interesting fact is that WalMart actually only offers real savings on a fraction of their products, which account for the majority of their sales (but not necessarily their profits) - their "signature" products. The rest are no better deals, and sometimes not as good, as in other stores. You should research the prices and compare before buying. Most people don't.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 12:07:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 12:07:00 PM
"The environmental costs you should be paying as a consumer..."
Which of course you yourself are careful to break out of each purchase and pay separately.
Which of course you yourself are careful to break out of each purchase and pay separately.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 12:31:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 12:31:00 PM
12:07 Yes, Wal-Mart's prices can sometimes be beaten, but it's fairly rare. I do check because it's important to my family to do so.
Such big box retailers are a great resource for a working class family in a remote area like this. I hope to see several open up soon.
Such big box retailers are a great resource for a working class family in a remote area like this. I hope to see several open up soon.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 12:52:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 12:52:00 PM
Somebody did a price comparison between WalMart and Target using 20 items for comparison. WalMart won, but just barely.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 01:08:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 01:08:00 PM
Just found this at Daily Kos:
Myth 1. Wal-Mart has low prices throughout the store. They focus on about 100 items known as "opening price points." The idea is to get you to believe that they have low prices because they discount things you know are cheaper than at other stores. Then you go and purchase a bunch of normal and higher-price things while you there.
But you say you've done the price comparisons yourself? You have seen it with your own eyes. Do you purchase over 100 different items at Wal-Mart regularly? If most people can't memorize anything longer than a 7 digit number, how can you expect to know the prices of even a significant fraction of all the goods available at a giant discount store? Shoot, most Wal-Marts won't even let you write prices down while you shop for fear that you might learn the truth.
People who believe that Wal-Mart always has the lowest prices are not stupid. They are simply falling victim to clever marketing and a gigantic television advertising campaign. Seriously, Terri Schiavo looked very much alert in the clips her family sent to the networks, yet you were willing to side with the army of doctors who said she was brain dead even though it contradicted what you saw with your own eyes. Why is this any different?
Myth 2. Wal-Mart's prices are always the lowest.. In fact, Wal-Mart's prices are often beat by other stores. That's why Wal-Mart sends out managers to price the opening price point items mentioned in point number 1. Sometimes Wal-Mart beats another Wal-Mart's prices in the same community; therefore, they can't always be the lowest. If one Wal-Mart has too much of a certain good, it's price on it will be lower than one where the good is selling at a normal pace. Stores that are close to competitors like Target and K-Mart have lower prices than those where Wal-Mart is the only game in town. They can't let anything get in the way of keeping this myth alive because otherwise nobody would have any reason to shop there.
Myth 3. Wal-Mart's low prices help millions of Americans make ends meet. Wal-Mart's low prices are not some kind of service to humanity. If there are instances where a Wal-Mart's broad range of prices are particularly cheap, this is part of their strategy to drive its competition out of business. This is why you get Wal-Mart overload in places like the San Diego suburbs. Once Wal-Mart is the only game in town, the sky's the limit.
In other words, by shopping at Wal-Mart now, you are killing yourself in the longrun and condemning your community to a future of limited commercial choices. If you can think long-term with regard to the deficit and Social Security, why can't you think long-term with regard to your own economic future?
I hate to get all Ari Fleischer on you here, but Wal-Mart shopping Kossacks, you need to understand that when you make statements like "I hate Wal-Mart but they sure do have low prices," you are helping the enemy. You are perpetuating a myth and by virtue of the fact that you are progressive enough to inhabit this web site your word has higher credibility than the average pro-Wal-Mart shopper. It's like saying "I hate George Bush's policies, but I admire him for his straight-forwardness and his determination to stick to his guns." You are playing right into Wal-Mart's strong suit. In fact, it's pretty much the only suit they have. Wal-Mart couldn't buy better word of mouth.
Indeed, the importance of this dispute is that prices are Wal-Mart's achilles heel. If they didn't have low prices, the vast majority of Americans wouldn't shop there. Yet, as I've explained here repeatedly, their prices aren't all that low. Therefore, the most effective way to force Wal-Mart to reform is tell the truth about them, and that's what me and a few others on this site have started doing.
I hope you'll consider joining the club. Wal-Mart has its hands in so much that is wrong with America today, there's more than enough room for everybody.
Myth 1. Wal-Mart has low prices throughout the store. They focus on about 100 items known as "opening price points." The idea is to get you to believe that they have low prices because they discount things you know are cheaper than at other stores. Then you go and purchase a bunch of normal and higher-price things while you there.
But you say you've done the price comparisons yourself? You have seen it with your own eyes. Do you purchase over 100 different items at Wal-Mart regularly? If most people can't memorize anything longer than a 7 digit number, how can you expect to know the prices of even a significant fraction of all the goods available at a giant discount store? Shoot, most Wal-Marts won't even let you write prices down while you shop for fear that you might learn the truth.
People who believe that Wal-Mart always has the lowest prices are not stupid. They are simply falling victim to clever marketing and a gigantic television advertising campaign. Seriously, Terri Schiavo looked very much alert in the clips her family sent to the networks, yet you were willing to side with the army of doctors who said she was brain dead even though it contradicted what you saw with your own eyes. Why is this any different?
Myth 2. Wal-Mart's prices are always the lowest.. In fact, Wal-Mart's prices are often beat by other stores. That's why Wal-Mart sends out managers to price the opening price point items mentioned in point number 1. Sometimes Wal-Mart beats another Wal-Mart's prices in the same community; therefore, they can't always be the lowest. If one Wal-Mart has too much of a certain good, it's price on it will be lower than one where the good is selling at a normal pace. Stores that are close to competitors like Target and K-Mart have lower prices than those where Wal-Mart is the only game in town. They can't let anything get in the way of keeping this myth alive because otherwise nobody would have any reason to shop there.
Myth 3. Wal-Mart's low prices help millions of Americans make ends meet. Wal-Mart's low prices are not some kind of service to humanity. If there are instances where a Wal-Mart's broad range of prices are particularly cheap, this is part of their strategy to drive its competition out of business. This is why you get Wal-Mart overload in places like the San Diego suburbs. Once Wal-Mart is the only game in town, the sky's the limit.
In other words, by shopping at Wal-Mart now, you are killing yourself in the longrun and condemning your community to a future of limited commercial choices. If you can think long-term with regard to the deficit and Social Security, why can't you think long-term with regard to your own economic future?
I hate to get all Ari Fleischer on you here, but Wal-Mart shopping Kossacks, you need to understand that when you make statements like "I hate Wal-Mart but they sure do have low prices," you are helping the enemy. You are perpetuating a myth and by virtue of the fact that you are progressive enough to inhabit this web site your word has higher credibility than the average pro-Wal-Mart shopper. It's like saying "I hate George Bush's policies, but I admire him for his straight-forwardness and his determination to stick to his guns." You are playing right into Wal-Mart's strong suit. In fact, it's pretty much the only suit they have. Wal-Mart couldn't buy better word of mouth.
Indeed, the importance of this dispute is that prices are Wal-Mart's achilles heel. If they didn't have low prices, the vast majority of Americans wouldn't shop there. Yet, as I've explained here repeatedly, their prices aren't all that low. Therefore, the most effective way to force Wal-Mart to reform is tell the truth about them, and that's what me and a few others on this site have started doing.
I hope you'll consider joining the club. Wal-Mart has its hands in so much that is wrong with America today, there's more than enough room for everybody.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 01:13:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 01:13:00 PM
So if you stick to the "opening price points" you get a good deal. But they would fall in the red if you limited your shopping to those 100.
If they're selling 100 items at a loss, it's amazing it's not covered under the Anti-Trust Act. But then that thing has been watered down.
If they're selling 100 items at a loss, it's amazing it's not covered under the Anti-Trust Act. But then that thing has been watered down.
Okay I don't like Walmart either but the price comparison thing is bogus for what you are applying it to. Many people use it the same way. The price comparison is a yardstick used to measure pricing between businesses. Each business picks a strategy and prices their goods to attract their specific target market. For example Wildberries in Arcata goes after the college students so you'll find the lowest price things (in a comparison) will be beer, mac n cheese, and what ever else is groovy and hip at the time. Ray's goes for the family shopper so they lower prices on bread, milk, butter and other staples that families have to shop for every week. This is designed to bring specific people into their stores.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 03:18:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 03:18:00 PM
Ohhh, another big conspiracy!!
If only it actually worked that way.
If only it actually worked that way.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 03:18:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 03:18:00 PM
Walmart holds onto its position by being low cost on everything. Pretty much it does it by controlling the supply chain and serving as a financier and consultant to suppliers who can't cut it. Over time you can't stay in the front position if you are only sort of living up to what you say you are (the low-cost leader). Eventually you lose your credibility. Walmart has been so successful because they make damn sure their prices are lower no matter who it hurts. The central Arkansas office controls and regulates all the internal store systems like heat, air conditioning, etc. That is one example of how they got to where they are today.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 03:23:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 03:23:00 PM
"Which of course you yourself are careful to break out of each purchase and pay separately."
Um actually no I don't. I am too poor to shop at Walmart.
Um actually no I don't. I am too poor to shop at Walmart.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 03:24:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 03:24:00 PM
"I hate to bring it up but those products you think you are making those kind of savings on are most likely being built in third world or beginning industrialized countries. The environmental costs you should be paying as a consumer are then shoved off onto a poor country to clean up long after your stove is used up and you are on to a new one."
Still waiting to hear where you shop for appliances and how you mitigate the "environmental costs" so we can all follow your example.
Still waiting to hear where you shop for appliances and how you mitigate the "environmental costs" so we can all follow your example.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 06:02:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 06:02:00 PM
3:24pm:
You sound very POOR. So how can you afford a computer and the cable bill to operate it?
You sound very POOR. So how can you afford a computer and the cable bill to operate it?
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 06:41:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 06:41:00 PM
HSU and the public library are amazing places for computer time.
I don't own any appliances. There are people who live different lifestyles hanging around Humboldt. The comment on externalities is not meant literally but it needs to be calculated into the type of value you are talking about when developing economic advantage in your community.
I don't own any appliances. There are people who live different lifestyles hanging around Humboldt. The comment on externalities is not meant literally but it needs to be calculated into the type of value you are talking about when developing economic advantage in your community.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 08:07:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 08:07:00 PM
In other words, you live under a bridge but you're an expert on how the rest of us should live and where we are permitted to shop.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 08:25:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 08:25:00 PM
Where did you get that from? Do you have to discredit everyone who doesn't have your idea?
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 09:05:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 09:05:00 PM
Oh sorry. You live in a lovely home with no furnace, refrigerator, TV, radio, computer, sink, shower or stove.
This makes you an expert on where we can shop and what we can own.
This makes you an expert on where we can shop and what we can own.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 09:14:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 09:14:00 PM
Where in the hell does the word expert appear in this blog anywhere?
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 10:22:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 10:22:00 PM
Walmart holds onto its position by being low cost on everything.
Several studies say otherwise. I'm going to dig them up and post them.
Several studies say otherwise. I'm going to dig them up and post them.
how about devil's advocate. But then what does that make you? Undereducated and antiquated?
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 11:32:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 11:32:00 PM
Please do Eric the research is always needed and interesting. It is important though to keep in mind that what counts is the public perception (read: marketing, spin, and branding) more than the actual numbers. Stock holders watch the actual numbers. The public goes on emotion and what they believe they have experienced.
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 11:35:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 11:35:00 PM
Because this person is poor you believe them to be daft also? How neighborly of you. Or is it because they don't live the same lifestyle you don't see how they could have an opinion? Poverty is a monetary condition not a mental condition. Think of it like race if you must. As for experience if you never had a baby does that mean you have no understanding of the process of giving birth?
# posted by : Mon Jul 07, 11:54:00 PM
: Mon Jul 07, 11:54:00 PM
Let's stick with "pompous hypocrite." We've established that you "don't own any appliances." In other words, you live under a bridge.
This does not confer any moral authority on you, nor does it give you the right to tell your neighbors who work for a living how to live or where to shop.
This does not confer any moral authority on you, nor does it give you the right to tell your neighbors who work for a living how to live or where to shop.
# posted by : Tue Jul 08, 07:46:00 AM
: Tue Jul 08, 07:46:00 AM
I'm on multiple meds. Wal-Mart charges a flat $10 per med, making it possible for me to skip the automatic insurance "co-pay" of $35 per med. Without this, I'd go broke or have to skip my meds.
# posted by : Tue Jul 08, 09:53:00 AM
: Tue Jul 08, 09:53:00 AM
I'm on multiple meds. Wal-Mart charges a flat $10 per med, making it possible for me to skip the automatic insurance "co-pay" of $35 per med. Without this, I'd go broke or have to skip my meds.
I would probably do the same.
I would probably do the same.
Pharma has a high markup above costs. Walmart is using it maybe as a loss leader (or close0 to get you in the door. I'd go too. It is a good idea.
Health and beauty items also have a high markup. Spices too. Tea and coffee. Lots of room to play around with for the companies. Alcohol too of course.
Health and beauty items also have a high markup. Spices too. Tea and coffee. Lots of room to play around with for the companies. Alcohol too of course.
# posted by : Tue Jul 08, 10:01:00 AM
: Tue Jul 08, 10:01:00 AM
Luckily you never had a baby but I'm sure you know all about it. Sounds like a lot of fun being on multiple meds and living under a bridge. Did you ever contemplate getting a job you lazy doper. Geeze what a concept, working for a living.
# posted by : Tue Jul 08, 06:28:00 PM
: Tue Jul 08, 06:28:00 PM
Says the horrible troll in your imagination under your bridge: I'm working on my doctorate. I don't have time to grow and I don't have a need to be living like you and yours in a white clapboard box and cement. History is full of figures like me. Maybe someday I will choose to live your lifestyle but not for now.
# posted by : Tue Jul 08, 10:02:00 PM
: Tue Jul 08, 10:02:00 PM
"History is full of figures like me. "
So is the Arcata rescue mission.
So is the Arcata rescue mission.
# posted by : Tue Jul 08, 10:13:00 PM
: Tue Jul 08, 10:13:00 PM
""History is full of figures like me.
So is the Arcata rescue mission."
Your point? A person's wallet or lack thereof is not an indication of intellect. It is an indication of how they live in your society. The underlying goal of course is simply to survive. I'd say the bridge troll is surviving and working much harder at it then most people ever had.
Throwing people away and their ideas because they make yours obsolete or make you work harder to prove the point you want every one else to believe is usually the characteristic of a very small mind and stunted emotional growth. I won't assign that to you though because I know little about you but I can't help you out if you write yet another post that proves this point in response to mine.
You might want to take some time to think this time. Or not.
So is the Arcata rescue mission."
Your point? A person's wallet or lack thereof is not an indication of intellect. It is an indication of how they live in your society. The underlying goal of course is simply to survive. I'd say the bridge troll is surviving and working much harder at it then most people ever had.
Throwing people away and their ideas because they make yours obsolete or make you work harder to prove the point you want every one else to believe is usually the characteristic of a very small mind and stunted emotional growth. I won't assign that to you though because I know little about you but I can't help you out if you write yet another post that proves this point in response to mine.
You might want to take some time to think this time. Or not.
# posted by : Wed Jul 09, 04:39:00 AM
: Wed Jul 09, 04:39:00 AM
"A person's wallet or lack thereof is not an indication of intellect."
But this is:
"Throwing people away and their ideas because they make yours obsolete or make you work harder to prove the point you want every one else to believe is usually the characteristic of a very small mind and stunted emotional growth."
But this is:
"Throwing people away and their ideas because they make yours obsolete or make you work harder to prove the point you want every one else to believe is usually the characteristic of a very small mind and stunted emotional growth."
# posted by : Wed Jul 09, 07:36:00 AM
: Wed Jul 09, 07:36:00 AM
How late do the library's stay open?
I believe there's one night that the Eureka library is open until 9. Maybe more. They're closed on Sunday and Monday last I noticed.
Well, let me get the hours.
Okay, for Eureka:
Tuesday NOON to 8:00 PM
Wednesday NOON to 8:00 PM
Thursday NOON to 5:00 PM
Friday 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM
Saturday 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM
You can get the hours for the other branches here.
I believe there's one night that the Eureka library is open until 9. Maybe more. They're closed on Sunday and Monday last I noticed.
Well, let me get the hours.
Okay, for Eureka:
Tuesday NOON to 8:00 PM
Wednesday NOON to 8:00 PM
Thursday NOON to 5:00 PM
Friday 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM
Saturday 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM
You can get the hours for the other branches here.
Not unless they have wifi and he's sitting outside the library.
# posted by : Wed Jul 09, 01:01:00 PM
: Wed Jul 09, 01:01:00 PM
So he/ she's a phony. We pretty much knew that. The important thing was to pass judgement on us, especially if we dared to buy our meds at Wal-Mart.
# posted by : Wed Jul 09, 07:57:00 PM
: Wed Jul 09, 07:57:00 PM
So he/ she's a phony. We pretty much knew that. The important thing was to pass judgement on us, especially if we dared to buy our meds at Wal-Mart.
Go back and read. The blogger never made any statements of the kind. You made the blogger into your straw man.
Paranoia.
Go back and read. The blogger never made any statements of the kind. You made the blogger into your straw man.
Paranoia.
# posted by : Wed Jul 09, 10:43:00 PM
: Wed Jul 09, 10:43:00 PM
Soooo.. the Wal Mart shopper for med's is driving to Santa Rosa, Crescent City or Redding to purchase their prescription. Not to cost effective for a POOR person.
# posted by : Thu Jul 10, 07:37:00 AM
: Thu Jul 10, 07:37:00 AM
This is my firt time on this sight, I read through all of the blogs that came up and thought I would say:
I work full time also, have two children, a home AND appliances. The man who is so angry and nasty should maybe take some time to calm down, maybe find something that can make you happy. If you're using your spare time to be nasty on the internet, then you're missing something in life. When I get off of work I spend my time positively. I don't spend a lot of time on the internet because it's not the most important thing in my life, so if I don't respond it's not because you "outsmarted" me; it's because I don't waste time bickering over the internet with an angry imbittered man. Just try to take it easy.
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I work full time also, have two children, a home AND appliances. The man who is so angry and nasty should maybe take some time to calm down, maybe find something that can make you happy. If you're using your spare time to be nasty on the internet, then you're missing something in life. When I get off of work I spend my time positively. I don't spend a lot of time on the internet because it's not the most important thing in my life, so if I don't respond it's not because you "outsmarted" me; it's because I don't waste time bickering over the internet with an angry imbittered man. Just try to take it easy.
# posted by : Mon Sep 22, 10:18:00 PM
: Mon Sep 22, 10:18:00 PM Links to this post:
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