Monday, July 28, 2008


Hate crime against.... Unitarians?

Yesterday a 58 year old man entered a Unitarian Church in Knoxville, Tennessee and started shooting. Children were performing a musical at the time, but no children were physically injured. Seven people were injured, two of them died. One of the dead had reportedly placed herself between the attacker and the children on stage. A few others tackled him and held him on the ground until the police arrived. According to the news he was motivated by his dislike for "the liberal movement" and his inability to land a job.

This gives me the heebie-jeebies. I spent a week in the woods with a bunch of Unitarians. At one point some campers from another area were target practicing on the hill above us. None of us felt like we were in danger, but it did break the tranquility of the week briefly. Had this story broken a week earlier, it might have rattled some nerves. I never thought of the Unitarians as an identity group. I think it's been about three years since I actually attended a service.

This guy thinks it should be regarded as an incident of terror - the motive apparently being political. But I think of terrorism as a calculated act aimed to promote a particular political agenda by intimidating opposition. This just seems like a random act of mental illness-induced anger.

What will be interesting is whether authorities in Tennessee will push for the death penalty even if the victims ask them not to. It's happened before and sometimes the prosecutor listens, other times the "victim's rights" get tossed aside when they're inconvenient to a prevailing agenda.

Check this map out. Humboldt County is like the only California county north of Sacramento with Unitarians.

Addendum: More info on the attacker. Plenty of ammunition if you want to trash right wing celebs like O'Reilly and Savage, but it's probably unfair. Interesting quote: Adkisson told Still that since "he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office."

Exactly what are Unitarians? Any particular thing that would make them stand out among other religions?
Well, they don't necessarily believe in God. They believe in "at most one God, or maybe more." They have their seven basic points which you can agree with, or not.

Basically, it's agnostics, atheists, and non-affiliated believers who want a church-type community.

They were a Christian church at one time, emphasizing "unitarianism" over "trinitarianism," but I'm not quite sure how that all played out. They merged with the Universalists in the 1960s, I think - Christians who believe that everyone will make it to Heaven.
Oh, and they tend to be liberal politically, but there are exceptions.
You mean the same so-called liberals in that Unitarian Church in Bayside which kicked the election day polling place out of their building? So much for the Quakers and their sense of social responsibility. I could care less what happens to those heartless fucks after that.
Bob Dylan was a Unitarian for a while in the 80s.
We belonged to something called the Community Church. My parents liked the sermons because the preacher didn't believe in God. He'd come over for a visit now and then. I couldn't at the time understand what they were talking about but I remember a lot of laughter. Later I heard that it became a Unitarian church. I think the decision had to do with some kind of tax or financial benefit of being affiliated. The pot-lucks were cool.
You mean the same so-called liberals in that Unitarian Church in Bayside which kicked the election day polling place out of their building? So much for the Quakers and their sense of social responsibility. I could care less what happens to those heartless fucks after that.

I don't know anything about the polling place issue, but don't blame the Quakers. Different group.
thank the sean hannity's and rush limbaugh's of the world for this. thats why the guy hated "liberals" so much.

i respect most right-wing radio hosts, but during election time, they act like complete tools for the republican party. its sad. they are so scared of Obama that it makes them foam at the mouth with hate.

take a few hours during the day and listen to either one of the guys, you cant miss the hatred being spewed in order to keep people afraid of black people, "liberals" and so on......ive been saying for weeks that the mainstream right wingers are aiming to get obama killed with their inflamatory speech.
The Unitarian group in Bayside doesn't allow a polling place in their church so the Unitarians in Tennessee deserved to be killed?
Unitarians are fence sitters. They like the comfort of conforminty that religious membership gives. At the same time they like to come up with their own moral roadmap.

Similar to the Church of Satan.
so sad,always the blame game.and when all is said and done,the government is just as fucked as ever
ERIC SAID "This just seems like a random act of mental illness-induced anger."

I think you are right but it's interesting looking at the way you portrayed the people who broke into Redway school and this guy. Just interesting, you were a lot more agitated.

This is a strange thread.
I think you are right but it's interesting looking at the way you portrayed the people who broke into Redway school and this guy. Just interesting, you were a lot more agitated.

Closer to home and with a direct impact on my kids, particularly my daughter. Plus, I doubt that all of the participants in the school destruction were mentally ill. Lastly, the Redway School vandals can benefit from the proper application of punishment if they're caught. This guy's probably lost.

In any case, if somebody I had known had been at the church, I might be more emotional about it.
Unitarians are fence sitters. They like the comfort of conforminty that religious membership gives. At the same time they like to come up with their own moral roadmap.

Okay. Is that supposed to be a criticism?
Nor did Eric accuse the vandals of terrorism.
Odd that there's no Unitarian presence in Mendocino County. Or Butte County where Chico State is located.
Eric, admit it. You are a Satanist. Wiki the Church of Satan and they have 9 points that they follow. I bet you are a Satanist at heart. Here, I'll give you the list of 9.

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years

You are a Satanist Mr. Kirk!
I couldn't have said it better myself and I'm the Voice of God. No, really. And, Eric? Remember, it's your soul that's on the line. Dump your worship of Satan like anon 7:44 suggests and find Christ before it's too late. I can show you how and why. Father's been very busy since you've been away..
Are Communitarians next? the Voice of God wonders. Time to bring Fire from Heaven down upon the vampires of souls.
At least he didn't spread garbage around and trash computers.
Word on the street in Kirks Unitarianism is a ruse. He is already a member of the Church of Satan. In fact, he's attained the rank of Grand Magus of the Church of Satan.
You know, anon 7:44, many of those 9 points, especially;3,4,5, and 8 are also the current philosophical cant of right wing Christianity. Just substitute Christ for Satan. It all comes together and validates point #9.
In addition, sometimes Christians will seek vengeance when no cheek has been slapped. i.e. Iraq.
At least he didn't splatter ketchup all over the place.
You mean the same so-called liberals in that Unitarian Church in Bayside which kicked the election day polling place out of their building?

I was not alone in voting in the UU church up Jacoby Creek Road from Bayside in the 2008 spring primaries. I don't know WTF this person's talking about re "so called liberals". I'm not a member of the congregation, but they absolutely do some righteous stuff, and are clearly left-liberal in their political orientation.
Let's clarify "Christians", shall we?

For nearly 2000 years what the world knows as "Christianity" is the gospel of Paul. It's Paul's Christianity that the vast majority of Christians follow and unfortunately, Paul had no idea of what Jesus was really teaching. No one did except Thomas and John, the clear gnostic Christian writers of the 1st century before Gnosis became so convoluted with angelology and syzgies (pairings of emanations from the Godhead) that no one could tell what they were saying from mumbo-jumbo. But still, the real Truth Jesus was teaching was to be found in the gnostic Christian texts of John and Thomas. It's in the Synoptic gospels as well but more developed in John and especially Thomas. But it was still in symbolic code and a Secret..

Not anymore..
Unitarians are cool. They do a lot of good deeds and don't bother anyone.
Psychic vampires?
sean hannity will tell you if you are christain enough.....

rush limbaugh will grant you christianship....

yet, you'd be listening to false prophets. jesus says that a rich man has a greater chance of fitting through the eye of a needle than getting into heaven. sean and rush are tools. if redemption day comes, the first people to burn will be those clowns.
in my opinion, this incident in tennessee is a predictable result of the extremist right-wing hatemongering that is rampant in some parts of this country, combined with widespread belief in the morally bankrupt concept of "group guilt" in which all members of a group are held responsible for the perceived wrongdoing of some members of the group.

this belief in "collective guilt" is drilled into the heads of millions of children in this country through the teachings of so-called "fundamentalist" christianity (which should really be called "revisionist" christianity as it strays so far from Jesus's core message of love and forgiveness).

ironically, most of the fire-and-brimstone that these fundamentalists preach, calling for the "blood of our enemies" and so on, are actually drawn from the old testament, where jehovah is constantly treating this group or that group to massive collective punishments.

at any rate, this shooting spree certainly sounds like a hate crime, in that the shooter apparently targeted this congregation for their political leanings.

the fact that he did this while innocent children were present makes it all the more sickening.

it sounds like one of the church members may have died protecting the children, while several others put themselves in harm's way to stop the shooter.

ironically, the shooter ended up emphatically demonstrating just how cowardly, intolerant, and hateful people like him are, while revealing the unitarians he targeted as heroic in defense of their children and willing to put their own lives on the line to stop the slaughter.

so in the end, the may have ended up making a political point, though certainly not the one he had intended to make.
2:39 is seriously messed up.

Some people just got shotgunned in their church, by a hate-spewing self-professed "Confederate" who said he wanted to "kill the liberals." And 2:39's response is to call a local congregation of the same church "heartless fucks" for not hosting the polling place which THEY ACTUALLY HOST?

That's not okay. And it's really not okay that the right wing keeps making angry "jokes" about eliminating liberals.

Fred (and everyone), also see this on UUs and the shooting. The "particular thing" that stands out about Unitarians is that they are gentle, determined activists for peace, justice, and human and civil rights. You know, liberals.
UU's activists, that's a good one. You want Christian activism, you go to the Mennonites and other Christian groups going into the hot spots to bear witness in Iraq, Occupied Territories, Sudan, by helping people. Mennonites put themselves on the front lines, get killed for doing so. And my aunt was part of those missionaries referred to who went in to Bolivia headhunter/tribal murderer territory and got themselves killed before the missionary group you saw in End of the Spear.

I just cannot even begin to imagine UU's having such courage of conviction. They don't even know who God or what God is and now, so thoroughly secularized (neutralized), they don't really care.
Christians who don't believe in God are schizophrenic and dangerous.
Amazing. I had no idea there was so much hostility and anger against Unitarians, but this thread seems to explain somewhat the incident.

There also seems to be some confusion as to what Unitarianism represents, so maybe I need to make a few educational posts.

I've had a few posts in the past.

This one discussed whether Unitarian Universalism is actually a religion.

This one carried the discussion a bit further.

This one discusses a bridge between Unitarianism and some of the more liberal Christian traditions

This one is about the nexus between the Unitarians and a prominent social issue.

Truth to tell, my wife enjoys the services. I get kind of bored by them unless there's a very interesting speaker, so I usually volunteer to accompany the kids on their "religious education" which usually consists of a deep "circle discussion" about an issue of kids' level comprehension followed by an art project or a game out on their playground. And of course snack.
See? Absolutely no idea of what God is all about. Actually, Eric, you are a perfect example of a Unitarian--"kinda think there's something there but sure as hell never get me to praise the Lord-look too silly and besides, who'd vote for me if I did that sort of wacko stuff?" mentality.

Try gnosis of God, it works. Believe me.
Hail Satan!
Did Michael Reagan pay for the bullets? Right-wing radio is a relic and so are its listeners.
Stephen and Leonard Shumard (letter mentioned in your first link) simply can't conceive that someone might be religious in a way that isn't couched in terms of a god. Both have to condemn what they can't understand.
Unitarians are some of the nicest and most socially committed people on the earth. Whatever they tap into, more power to them.
Let me try to get this straight. Unitarians are Christians who don't necessarily believe in Christ.
So why do they call themselves Christians? It doesn't make any sense to me.
They are Satanists, like Mr. Kirk who use Christianity as a mask in order to worship Satan without the every day harassment a Satan worshiper would get.
There you have it. When you learn the Truth, who "God" really is, what God really is, then you know those who oppose this knowledge being spread to the people in order to save their lives forever instead of dying out, gone forever, you know they really are doing what can definitely be called "devil's" work. They don't want human beings to live to make it to the World to Come. Devil's work.

That's why Jesus was so upset with the Pharisees. Same thing. Same thing today you'll see with everyone who doesn't understand what Jesus taught and persecutes those who do. Unfortunately, those who haven't no idea what Jesus taught includes most Christians because they follow Paul who also didn't know the Truth and taught a false doctrine, the doctrine of traditional Christianity. Unitarians reacted to Pauline Christianity by ignoring it mainly and adopting views more or less identical to those of any group of secular humanists except UU's will put in a token nod to Christ here and there in their services. They are a fine bunch but like all the rest of the organized religions, they haven't a clue who or what God is.
so, this idiot was pissed because he was about to lose his food stamps,his job?and who does he blame,the usual suspects.gays,blacks,martians, name it,they will blame everyone but themselves
Eric, why in the hell are you worshiping Satan? Were you brought up this way? Did someone blackmail you into this? Come back to the Lord before it is too late.
why anyone would "worship" a fictional character is beyond me.....but i have a hard time comprehending the term "worship" it just another word for "love"?
why anyone would "worship" a fictional character is beyond me

Like really, they can't even worship you back. But who loves you? And who do you love? Is it God
or the devil?
Heh. Anybody ever notice that "Santa" contains the same letters as "Satan?"


I think now I've been called just about everything on this blog.

I did once see Satan Church leader Anton LaVaye eating at the Mandalay restaurant in the Richmond District of San Francisco. I later learned that he lived in nearby Pacific Heights before his wife took him to the cleaners in their divorce.

Strongly recommend the Mandalay's tea salads. And their spicy green beans! Parking is a bitch in that neighborhood though.

By the way, the Pentangle has 5 prongs. The Star of David 6. If you turn the Star of David upside down, it's still the Star of David. That must piss Satanists off.
And this must really piss off our local 5th Column kosher konquistadors too..Down with Khazars!
Btw, Eric, Michael Lerner and I got into a short e-mail conversation when I asked why no one said zip after 6 months or so about the article I sent in.

I told him Tikkun's actions only confirmed what my article's point, that Tikkun is window dressing, a token nod for Jewish and Gentile liberals, for what everyone outside the Judeo-Christian enthrallment with Israel recognizes as fascist aggression, pure and simple, directed towards Palestinians in the way of the Yiddish Thir..Eretz Yisrael.

Michael said he wouldn't discuss anything with me until I read his book which took me a while to get via the library system since I was not about to pay money for his opinions. Sure enough, the book's like Tikkun, liberal window-dressing for the same old Zionist agenda of taking Palestine away from Palestinians.

Oh Michael apologizes all over the place for Israelis creating hell for Palestinians but, "We Jews have suffered so much persecution..
same old blame everyone else but ourselves line that masks the terrible immorality of a late set of European religious refugee colonialists taking land and lives away from the indigenous population of a militarily defenseless country so that they can have a new "homeland".

The real Jewish homeland is in northern India where they got their version of gods coming to earth starting their race, the Vedic god Brahma (Abram-Abraham)and goddess Saraisvati(Sarai-Sarah. It was in India that proto-Jews can trace their Hebrew makeover of the Brahmin "priests of God" caste system ideology that saw themselves as a separate race from the rest of humanity. It was Brahmins and their system that began the Abrahamic intolerance of other religious practices. Ask Indians about how tolerant Brahmins were wherever they went in India. Ask Canaanites how tolerant Israelites were. Ask Meccan Arabic Vedic worshipers how tolerant Muhammad was. Ask Palestinians how tolerant Israelis are. It's the Brahmin curse within Abrahamic religions.
But it was also within that Brahmin system of knowledge where the Truth was deeply hidden, the truth about who God is and who we are, only the ancients couldn't comprehend it.
Eric admits eating with Anton LeVay. Even knew where his house was. I am telling you people Eric is a Magus of the Church of Satan! Now we know who you worship. You probably even have a doll of Stephen Lewis (The Prophet of the Lord of Light Almighty!) sitting in your basement, with pins inside its braincase! How dare you! You will not spread your demon seed across this county! Go back to the shadow!
I can't argue with that.
Stephen's bedtime story: Long long ago, Vishnu and Shiva were in heaven. Vishnu gave one of his wives, Ganga, the godess of subjective truth, to Shiva, because she constantly quarreled with his other wife, Lakshmi, the goddess of the means to achieving objectives. Take her out of here, said Vishnu.

Shiva arriving on earth with his new bride realized that the power of the subjective truth which Ganga held within her would be far too much energy for the world to take in all at once. So Shiva hid Ganga in his dreadlocks, letting only a little nugget of Her sacred nectar out at a time... (to be continued)
Stephen's real vision that will shake the world of the Abrahamic religions, traditional Christianity, Judaism, and Islam to pieces, as they need to be so shaken. July 6th, God gave the confirmation of a vision I had in the year 2000. I know what who and what God is and am now seeking those who hear the Call like I did when they hear from me who heard it from my Father. They will know and respond because I am sent to give them and many others their Sign that sticking to the Way, the true Way of goodness, is rewarded with everlasting life for all those who believe and have believed and lived to serve God by serving their fellow human beings.

Just thought I mention it..
Seriously, I have since the beginning of this month been going through another round of spiritual revelations pouring into my mind. This episode has been one of my longest ones of continuous revelations coming in, everyday a bunch more, so many I could hardly keep up with them as I posted them to my website book.

These ones changed my religion. I no longer follow what I used to call "Biomystical" Christianity which was my religion up until this month. Now it's "Climax" Christianity because God's given me the meaning behind Jacob's Ladder, the vision Jacob got before he fought with God and became Israel, the vision St. Stephen got as he was stoned to death by the Pharisee Jews led by Saul who became Paul.

This Stephen gets stoned the new way with the Goddess plant, the one sans male energy and packed with Her energy. "Climax" means "ladder" in Greek and it means that biological community that reaches a stable and sustainable existence in a series of steps leading up to this end state of a living community.

If anyone hears the Call and wants to know what Jesus is talking about in the New Testament and in Thomas, it is about life itself and who we really are. Ask and you shall receive.
What I want to know is; when Jesus spoke to the multitudes and multiplied the loaves and fishes for them, where there enough porto-potties to handle the load? Was there a vegan menu? Did he get a CPU for such an activity? How was security handled? Were there special VIP backstage passes? Who came on after Jesus' set? Before? Warm up?
Did he offer gas cards?
"those heartless fucks"

are words I could not ever imagine being appropriate to apply to the UUs I have known during the last 30 years or so.
"You are a Satanist Mr. Kirk!"

How many people do you suppose took the time to read your ridiculous list?
This thread scratches the surface of religious intolerance. Like a little Iran, where minority religions find their leaders taken away in the dead of the night, beaten, and murdered. Where these people find the government uses bulldozers to rip the bodies of their ancestors out of their graves, destroying whole cemeteries because the ruling religion hates the religion of those ancestors.
Progressive activism seems to almost automatically rule out religious commitment. UU's and secular Judaism with a smattering of pagans while most others are atheists. Without spiritual knowledge these people will reconstruct the same political war-games that run Western societies to their detriment. Instead of viewing each community as Family, political thinking wants always to divide community into warring groups. Why? Because it is in the upset of political or military war that ambitious aggressive alphas move up in social status.

Only knowing about the Sacrifice of Power for Love changes this otherwise inherent human characteristics which is why spiritual consciousness becomes so important for the creation of peace on earth.
Who came on after Jesus' set?

Paul jumped on stage and grabbed the mic but he was blown off stage by the electric harps of Shiva Lewis and the Gnostic OhNo! Band.
Stephen, there is no god.
I am especially heartened by the spirit of forgiveness and compassion exhibited by the Unitarians in this tragedy. I wouldn't expect the same from most Christians.
If you ever see "End of the Spear" you would see the power of Christian forgiveness that so astonished murderous Ecuadorean tribesmen who had killed the husbands of these Christian missionary wives they converted. The killings stopped that terrorized all the tribal communities and river towns up and downstream from the murderous tribe. The same thing happened multiplied by the thousands as Christianity swept across early Roman Empire through persecution of martyrs by Roman emperors until the reign of Constantine.
To those who think there is no God, God will leave in their graves while those who know God and followed the goodness of God will live to go forward to the World to Come.
Is that a threat Stephen?
Only to those who do not believe in God or doing good to their fellow human being. Such will die in their graves according to all the accounts recording the teachings of Jesus. All the innocent and good go forward while the rest become dust.
So all those bunnies under my refrig are the lost souls of non believers?

I don't believe it.
Uh, Stephen, don't you mean that they'll burn in Hell in agony forever? Because that's what Jesus did say, according to the Gospels.

And yes, the responses from Unitarians in the area of the tragedy and around the country are very forgiving and heartening. I'll post some of them later on.
they'll burn in Hell in agony forever? Because that's what Jesus did say, according to the Gospels.

Show me where Jesus says that in the Gospels you idiot.
"Uh, Stephen, don't you mean that they'll burn in Hell in agony forever? Because that's what Jesus did say, according to the Gospels."

No, Eric, that's what Pauline Christians told everyone Jesus said in the Gospels. They didn't understand him and neither do you. He is speaking metaphorically whenever he uses "fire" as a descriptor. The "fire" symbolizes annilation, just as the chaff was burned while the wheat was harvested. If you want to save your soul's existence in order to make it to the World to Come, you follow the Father and the Son of Man prophets He's sent to bring the Good News!

"And yes, the responses from Unitarians in the area of the tragedy and around the country are very forgiving and heartening. I'll post some of them later on."

Amazing. Eric, you're politicizing Unitarians now with your "solidarity" posts to back them up I guess against the missionaries I posted about. Are UU's Progressives and Christians Republicans in your eyes? Or more to the point, can you ever not politicize issues..isn't it hard to learn anything when your mind's always looking for the rebuttal?

I have no real beef with Unies except they aren't Christians following the teachings of Jesus so they haven't knowledge of why we need to do so in order to save our souls from annihilation. They're in the same camp that way as most Christians though and of course, all Jews and Muslims who never had the benefit of understanding what Christianity was really about, thanks to Paul's revision of Jesus' teachings.
You are the harlot that will be cast into the lake of fire Stephen. You are the harbinger of doom.
Will cyberspace trolls also be cast into everlasting fire? I sure hope so.
I have no real beef with Unies except they aren't Christians following the teachings of Jesus so they haven't knowledge of why we need to do so in order to save our souls from annihilation.

No, they're not Christians. They're just people trying to make sense of the world and be a positive force in it for the short time we live here. My point wasn't in response to yours at all, but in response to another poster who mentioned the very positive comments attributed to mourning Unitarians.
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